Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-29-2010 | 09:39 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
OK. I get it now.
Excellent question. Gotta admit, that's a new one for me.
Might wanna run it by Geordi Leforge, but here's my sea lawyer answer. Unofficial of course:
Scheduling has to follow the open time award sequence contained in the contract. It says open time WILL be covered under Sections 23.N and 23.O. There is no exception for pilots on assigned rest.
23.M.7 says they can deviate from that only to "maintain schedule integrity". But if they do that, then the guy who was supposed to get the trip is pay protected.
Bottom line -
If you are legal for the trip, you get it. So yes, the yellow or green would trump the assigned rest.
If it were otherwise, then skeds could easily violate seniority in the trip awards by just assigning "rest" to one guy and giving the nice greenie to the next guy.
Excellent question. Gotta admit, that's a new one for me.
Might wanna run it by Geordi Leforge, but here's my sea lawyer answer. Unofficial of course:
Scheduling has to follow the open time award sequence contained in the contract. It says open time WILL be covered under Sections 23.N and 23.O. There is no exception for pilots on assigned rest.
23.M.7 says they can deviate from that only to "maintain schedule integrity". But if they do that, then the guy who was supposed to get the trip is pay protected.
Bottom line -
If you are legal for the trip, you get it. So yes, the yellow or green would trump the assigned rest.
If it were otherwise, then skeds could easily violate seniority in the trip awards by just assigning "rest" to one guy and giving the nice greenie to the next guy.
ATL was a mess. 1:30+ with no landings. DAL/AirTran/DCI were diverting their aircraft in mass, some went back as far as RDU from ODF. All of the close in alternates got socked in with planes.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 06-29-2010 at 10:12 PM.
06-29-2010 | 09:55 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
I did A2 to E34 the other day, 47 minute turn... FAIL. 
Its so they had room to add "Connection" under Delta. I think we all complained about that too because you're right to say that the Pan Am scheme was pretty awesome especially when it got so large.
But don't worry, there will be a new fleet paint scheme before the decade is out:
Hmmm... how many people could a C130J model hold if you made it into like a double decker passenger plane? Just saying. Tower enroute control anyone?
But don't worry, there will be a new fleet paint scheme before the decade is out:
There are two Lockheeds in the background, and they're L-100 Hercules that replaced earlier C-46's. They were Delta's main deck freighter fleet. I believe Delta operated the DC-10 twice, once when the delivery of the L-1011 was delayed in the early 70's, and then again from 1987-1989 after the merger with Western.
06-29-2010 | 11:46 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
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From: Seeking no jacket required rotations
06-30-2010 | 04:10 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
OK. I get it now.
Excellent question. Gotta admit, that's a new one for me.
Might wanna run it by Geordi Leforge, but here's my sea lawyer answer. Unofficial of course:
Scheduling has to follow the open time award sequence contained in the contract. It says open time WILL be covered under Sections 23.N and 23.O. There is no exception for pilots on assigned rest.
23.M.7 says they can deviate from that only to "maintain schedule integrity". But if they do that, then the guy who was supposed to get the trip is pay protected.
Bottom line -
If you are legal for the trip, you get it. So yes, the yellow or green would trump the assigned rest.
If it were otherwise, then skeds could easily violate seniority in the trip awards by just assigning "rest" to one guy and giving the nice greenie to the next guy.
Excellent question. Gotta admit, that's a new one for me.
Might wanna run it by Geordi Leforge, but here's my sea lawyer answer. Unofficial of course:
Scheduling has to follow the open time award sequence contained in the contract. It says open time WILL be covered under Sections 23.N and 23.O. There is no exception for pilots on assigned rest.
23.M.7 says they can deviate from that only to "maintain schedule integrity". But if they do that, then the guy who was supposed to get the trip is pay protected.
Bottom line -
If you are legal for the trip, you get it. So yes, the yellow or green would trump the assigned rest.
If it were otherwise, then skeds could easily violate seniority in the trip awards by just assigning "rest" to one guy and giving the nice greenie to the next guy.
06-30-2010 | 04:16 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: 737A
dude-
You can always call and ask to be released. They'll probably do it in this case.
Contractually though, you're on the hook until noon. Section 23.S.8
Extremely unlikely, but technically they could call at 5:01AM for a 5:02PM report and fly you until midnight.
If nothing's going on, they should let you free at 5AM, unless you get a richard cranium on the phone.
You can always call and ask to be released. They'll probably do it in this case.
Contractually though, you're on the hook until noon. Section 23.S.8
Extremely unlikely, but technically they could call at 5:01AM for a 5:02PM report and fly you until midnight.
If nothing's going on, they should let you free at 5AM, unless you get a richard cranium on the phone.
06-30-2010 | 04:41 AM
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From: Light Chop
Here is an idea, just an idea mind you. Go to Deltanet, Flight Ops Merger Headquarters and in the top left click on the submit feedback HERE and type out your questions:
Just make sure you note where the question is coming from, such as: This moron on airlinepilotcentralforums.com/major/any-latest-greatest-about-delta on page 4211 said... so I wanted to know...
BUT, I'd read all 6 of the other phases just to make sure the question was not asked. Such as I was wondering why the CA has to do the shutdown check with me because many are very distracted with other pertinent things at that point and the checklist can be very clumsy. But, they explained why.
Or why do the NWA FA's use a "call if not ready" procedure for takeoff? Well, thats answered too, plus the ongoing issue now created with the DAL procedure of call when ready.
Just doing my part.
Just make sure you note where the question is coming from, such as: This moron on airlinepilotcentralforums.com/major/any-latest-greatest-about-delta on page 4211 said... so I wanted to know...
BUT, I'd read all 6 of the other phases just to make sure the question was not asked. Such as I was wondering why the CA has to do the shutdown check with me because many are very distracted with other pertinent things at that point and the checklist can be very clumsy. But, they explained why.
Or why do the NWA FA's use a "call if not ready" procedure for takeoff? Well, thats answered too, plus the ongoing issue now created with the DAL procedure of call when ready.
Just doing my part.
06-30-2010 | 04:41 AM
Works Every Weekend
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From: 737 ATL
She was probably shocked that you were so honest and by the book.
Some guys would have checked open time and left at 5 without even calling to ask.
Not that I've ever done that. Just sayin...
06-30-2010 | 04:43 AM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
Many things that are termed "Best Practice" here at DAL somehow feel like procedures. They are technique. Look at the FOM and see how it defines crew rest. It is vague for a reason. The only thing that is directive is the PIC requirement. Even that can change with dispatcher approval. Go read the FOM and report back.
This is about to change. Things are going to be defined. That is all I can say at the moment. FWIW, there are going to be a lot of guys that will not like this, and it is not limited to fNWA.
06-30-2010 | 04:45 AM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
06-30-2010 | 04:45 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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And, flash forward (and I commented about this about a year ago and don't want to have to go back and do that search): Delta, as opposed to the former NWA, has always empowered the FO's. We have also known what the guy in the left seat was going to do: its a team effort. The pilot flying the leg inputs all of the flying stuff into the boxes. The other guy, the PM, would do the walk-around and the preflight. Whoever flies that leg briefs the leg, the departure, the taxi, the threats, etc. Works great, lasts a long time. Delta has always emphasized a healthy CRM cockpit without the caste system that interferes with safe flight. Maybe because we have a lot of guys, like me, with a lot of experience in aviation but a junior seniority number. Its a cultural thing: but I damn sure guarantee you that it does not invite some kid in the right seat watching his CA fly a stupid approach or doing anything that might get the both of them violated. I understand the fNWA approach. As a pilot of 27 years, I kind of like the Delta approach.
I understand your point because Im now in the South system and doing it the South way. I have a broader perspective than you do. Having that perspective allows me to avoid the sweeping generalizations that seem to be creeping into your posts. I don't believe you understand the NW approach since you've never used it. All you have to go on is what others have told you about it. Having used both systems now I can legitimately make the following observations:
-Worldflight produced a better formatted, easier to read dispatch product. I still miss that 2nd release. I can sometimes print my own but it seems to depend on the type of terminal at the gate.
-AWABS is simpler.
-The DAL manuals are an abomination.
-The NW training product was far more consistant. Train the way you will operate on the line. Sim intructors were also LCPs.
-Memory items need to go, and the redbordered checklist needs to return.
-Commuting and J/S policies at DAL are wrongheaded.
-Dal memos are formatted in such a way that they look like there printed off a 1940s teletype machine. PDF anyone?
- What's with the S captains not even wanting to look at the logbooks? Kinda scares me.
-The TP system appears to have been watered down to the point of being pointless.
-Ditto the ACARS system. I do understand that this will be one area that gets some attention.
-The overall DAL world is A LOT more pilot friendly. I love it.
-DAL facilities are WAAAY better. You S guys liking the Bus stop in MSP?
-The guys I've been flying with have been great. They're largely curious about NW. When they ask about something I tell them. Otherwise I don't. Cats and dogs can fly together. (They're the cats)
-The scheduling flexability at DAL is a great thing. No so sure about PBS though.
That's it off the top of my head. When you've used both systems you can compare and contrast and form an opinion about what is or isn't better. Until then you can't.
Gnewt
Last edited by Gnewt; 06-30-2010 at 05:08 AM.
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