Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-31-2010, 05:21 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Tomcat
I'm still hearing an occasional whisper about a narrow body category in Guam. The usual "friend of a friend" of mine on the 4th floor deal. I hear that we settled down about it after the JAL deal died, but we are still studying it? Anyone, Bueller?
LA Base meeting notes stated that the company stated it was "Dead for now."
Whatever that means.
Of course there are a ton of things going on, and the can hit delete or execute on any of them at any time. It is always good to have options.
07-31-2010, 05:25 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,353
Originally Posted by Tomcat
I'm still hearing an occasional whisper about a narrow body category in Guam. The usual "friend of a friend" of mine on the 4th floor deal. I hear that we settled down about it after the JAL deal died, but we are still studying it? Anyone, Bueller?
07-31-2010, 05:47 AM
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Position: 320B
Posts: 511
I knew I could count on you guys.... Safe flying!
Sitting on alert for the MOAGS... Mother of all Green Slips in MEM....
TC
Sitting on alert for the MOAGS... Mother of all Green Slips in MEM....
TC
07-31-2010, 05:51 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
If you use Alfa's numbers, $90M / 3 (pilot group = a 3rd) and divide by 10,500 pilots equals $2,857 as an average, some above some below.
You might want to divide by the 12,000+ pilots we have however, or the -other- 1,500+ are going to be plenty ****ed off when they get nada!
AND...add in the 305 new hires too, they'll want some of that cheese!
07-31-2010, 06:00 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Tomcat
I'm still hearing an occasional whisper about a narrow body category in Guam. The usual "friend of a friend" of mine on the 4th floor deal. I hear that we settled down about it after the JAL deal died, but we are still studying it? Anyone, Bueller?
Why Guam?
Very simplistically: NRT slots and monopoly bustin'. Also, many widebodies can overfly NRT and go direct to their served market.
ASA has an asian operation, why not DAL? I would guess tho that if DAL can do what they wanted with the Guam op, without ever dedicating actual resources to it, that is what they will do.
In the AF, it was: study, tiger team, study, expert panel, OBE.
07-31-2010, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Herkflyr
My point about the rigidity of things (perhaps not SOPA/SMAC but other NWA guidance) was:
1. F/O's didn't even know how to load the FMS because that was the captain's strict domain. Ditto for overhead preflight panel, and the exterior walkaround. While I like the fact that usually a certain duty is delegated for this crewmember or that, to absolutely 100% of the time state "only" this guy does this or that, results in you losing a lot of knowledge, and more importantly, degrades airmanship.
2. Apparently at NWA you would rather go around than have the pilot flying actually touch the flap handle? While 99% of the time the flying pilot doesn't touch the flaps or gear, there are the rare occasions when the captain is busy on the radio or coordinating something with the FAs. In that case if I am slowing down I will move the flaps and just sort of indicate what I did. The captain always just kind of nods and continues what he was doing. As the FOM clearly states, we all know that is the exception and not the rule.
Correct me if I am wrong on any of this. Aside from a few things like this (if true) I still think that your way of doing operational business at NWA was stellar.
1. F/O's didn't even know how to load the FMS because that was the captain's strict domain. Ditto for overhead preflight panel, and the exterior walkaround. While I like the fact that usually a certain duty is delegated for this crewmember or that, to absolutely 100% of the time state "only" this guy does this or that, results in you losing a lot of knowledge, and more importantly, degrades airmanship.
2. Apparently at NWA you would rather go around than have the pilot flying actually touch the flap handle? While 99% of the time the flying pilot doesn't touch the flaps or gear, there are the rare occasions when the captain is busy on the radio or coordinating something with the FAs. In that case if I am slowing down I will move the flaps and just sort of indicate what I did. The captain always just kind of nods and continues what he was doing. As the FOM clearly states, we all know that is the exception and not the rule.
Correct me if I am wrong on any of this. Aside from a few things like this (if true) I still think that your way of doing operational business at NWA was stellar.
I don't think SOPA/SMAC quite that rigid. As I recall:
1.) All FO's knew how to load the FMS. They would do it if the captain wasn't there when they got to the airplane and the paperwork was ready, which was most of the time.
2.) The FO's did not know the overhead panel preflight. That is true.
3.) I think the captains and the F/O's could do the exterior walkaround after the captains started getting signed off to do them during OE. The captains just never did them, unless the F/O wasn't there or if it was 75 degrees in Miami and the Dolphins Cheerleaders were in the window taking pictures of the airplane. (See how I worked that in for you 80 and ftb?)
4.) The FP moving the flap handle and gear handle. I can't imagine what the NFP would be doing that is so important that he wouldn't be in the loop enough to be able to do it. I know what you are talking about though. But, I never had to go around because of SOPA/SMAC rigidity.
I agree with you in that SOPA/SMAC was pretty cool. Once you got checked out on an airplane, it was no time before you felt right at home. We'll see how things go at the New Delta. But, from what I see, like what many of the South guys said, they are slowly changing some things, like they said they would. What starts off with being able to book jumpseats online and not having to load in 9 million digits into Delta Crew, might end with 2 releases being printed and a return to some form of SOPA/SMAC being employed. I hope so.
New K Now
07-31-2010, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Timbo
You might want to devide by the 12,000+ pilots we have however, or the -other- 1,500+ are going to be plenty ****ed off when they get nada!
ttl: 12136- 1471= 10,665 eligible for employee profit sharing checks (I am guessing, could be wrong on all counts.)
Using MEC Update 08-04 and this yr avg. salary of $142k...A pilot who made 100k would get a payout (as of now):
$30m / 10665 = $2813
$100k pilot would get 100/142 of the average = $1981 or 1.981% of earnings.
You get 12%(adjusted for targeting) of PS added to your DC/DPSP.
The "effective" percentage is 2.218% of your income.(as of today)
Lets hope for a big profit in Q3, and maybe a breakeven/small gain in Q4.
07-31-2010, 07:07 AM
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Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
OK, Shiznit that too some work. Now do it times three. (Assuming like quarters going forward)
07-31-2010, 07:26 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
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Ok, now promise me my wife won't find out about it so I can buy a new mainsail and jib!!
BTW...how much money did DAL lose in the first quarter that has already off-set this $500M quarter?
BTW...how much money did DAL lose in the first quarter that has already off-set this $500M quarter?
07-31-2010, 08:37 AM
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Posts: 3,842
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
My point about the rigidity of things (perhaps not SOPA/SMAC but other NWA guidance) was:
1. F/O's didn't even know how to load the FMS because that was the captain's strict domain. Ditto for overhead preflight panel, and the exterior walkaround. While I like the fact that usually a certain duty is delegated for this crewmember or that, to absolutely 100% of the time state "only" this guy does this or that, results in you losing a lot of knowledge, and more importantly, degrades airmanship.
2. Apparently at NWA you would rather go around than have the pilot flying actually touch the flap handle? While 99% of the time the flying pilot doesn't touch the flaps or gear, there are the rare occasions when the captain is busy on the radio or coordinating something with the FAs. In that case if I am slowing down I will move the flaps and just sort of indicate what I did. The captain always just kind of nods and continues what he was doing. As the FOM clearly states, we all know that is the exception and not the rule.
Correct me if I am wrong on any of this. Aside from a few things like this (if true) I still think that your way of doing operational business at NWA was stellar.
1. F/O's didn't even know how to load the FMS because that was the captain's strict domain. Ditto for overhead preflight panel, and the exterior walkaround. While I like the fact that usually a certain duty is delegated for this crewmember or that, to absolutely 100% of the time state "only" this guy does this or that, results in you losing a lot of knowledge, and more importantly, degrades airmanship.
2. Apparently at NWA you would rather go around than have the pilot flying actually touch the flap handle? While 99% of the time the flying pilot doesn't touch the flaps or gear, there are the rare occasions when the captain is busy on the radio or coordinating something with the FAs. In that case if I am slowing down I will move the flaps and just sort of indicate what I did. The captain always just kind of nods and continues what he was doing. As the FOM clearly states, we all know that is the exception and not the rule.
Correct me if I am wrong on any of this. Aside from a few things like this (if true) I still think that your way of doing operational business at NWA was stellar.
#1 Ridiculous. Who told you that? An FO not being able to load the FMS? You're kidding, right? It was the captain's overhead, and the FO's exterior preflight, but the CA could perform the walkaround. The overhead was that way because in certain fleets, you could only do the overhead from the left seat (anti-skid test in the DC-9, for example). There was VERY strong vertical guidance in all the fleets, so SOPA/SMAC was sometimes driven by the way one aircraft required things if it didn't make a difference in other fleets.
#2 You're kidding, right? Go around because the CA has to move the flap lever? SOPA/SMAC said that this is the way to do it almost all of the time. But go around because you can't do it exactly this way is absurd. Deviations were fine, but they should be the exception, and it was the nature of that you had to MAKE an exception to draw your attention to why you had to make it.
But consider what you are saying. If the other seat is so TOTALLY swamped that if he or she can't reach over and move the flaps a notch, and it's to the point in the approach where if he doesn't do it RIGHT then it creates a problem, then there are CRM issues going on, and you might want to consider the state of the crew and airplane.
I mean coordinating with the FAs when you are in the pattern? Is it something that important that it can't wait until you get on the ground? Don't you think that stuff is better handled after landing or before you decend below 10k? THIS is exactly the kinds of error that SOPA/SMAC was designed to trap.
This is what made SOPA/SMAC such an inherently strong error trap. If the PM DID have to reach over and move the the flaps, that was a big red flag that the guy in other seat is overloaded and that you'd better look around and do a quick assessment.
Sounds like you're getting your info from a guy who never flew under it. Next time you fly with a north guy, ask him what HE thought about it.
Nu
Last edited by NuGuy; 07-31-2010 at 09:47 AM.
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