Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 875325)

Agreed.

If they really care about the product, insourcing should be a priority for them as well.

Besides, the new FARs on rest are going to really hurt the regionals, so it's to both of our advantage in bringing back in small jet scope.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 875355)

I interpret a “don’t show your cards” approach by DALPA when it comes to everything but especially scope, I get it. It just requires a lot of trust knowing that our 9, 88 and possibly 320 fleets are on the line and that runs up and down our seniority list and would affect everybody. Junior 88 Captains are mid to high 7ER FOs, if they get displaced they’re headed back there and everyone can move down or out.

Some aren’t willing to give that trust based on previous experience, some are, hence the debate for years now on this thread alone.

But many of us are looking at National and wondering whose side are they on, mainline pilots or regional lifers when it comes to scope? You can’t have both.

People are looking for a leader within a national organization that doesn't allow it and they are annoyed, and rightfully so.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 875336)

Well lets play with this for a little bit. First a question that you can answer and I will answer first.
How long do you think it will take to negotiate a restoration pwa. (60-70% increase) IMHO at least five years. So with that assumption lets go from there.
Get a 20-30% raise on day one of a contract that takes less than a year to negotiate and is effective on Jan 1, 2013 or the amendable date. Add five percent a year for four year. (Same date you would at the earliest get a contract for a 40-70% gain)
So 30 yr 1, 35 yr 2, 40 yr 3, 45 yr four, over 2012 book rates. Now compile that money earned and compare it to what you will have made waiting for four to five years for a contract that may get to total restoration. Add in the extra retirement money along the way. Which one puts more money in your pocket?
Of course if you can force the company to give 100 percent restoration you will have 1) done something most associations have never done, and 2) The above example does not matter.

There are many ways to get to the same point in the same amount of time. It is the time value money approach. Just a thought and I am not suggesting anything. Just offering a counter point for the sake of discussion. You also would be back in section six again at the same point you would have been completing the first round.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 875363)

The Chairman's Letter from today is a good example as it makes it sound as if our pay is already restored.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 875352)

Those lawsuits were stupid regional pilots going at it alone. They had no chance from the start. What happens when management steps in and makes it full merger and not a take over of the flying? You know legally there is no difference between a merger of NWA/DAL to say DAL/SKW. Only that ALPA would be kicked out the door because it is bound by the same policy of mergers between carriers of all sizes. ALPA merger policy would put regional lifers above mainline pilots, this is the exact scenario ALPA can not have at any cost.

Originally Posted by RockyBoy (Post 875354)

^^^^^^

ACL is 110% right here. I hope we have a new contract to vote on by Dec 31, 2012 that has a three year amendable date and a good chip out of the restoration block. Get another contract to vote on by Dec 31, 2015 that has another good chunk out of the block and an amendable date three years later. By 2018 we'll be back. I know it's a decade after it went away, but it took far longer than a decade to build up to C2K. If we go for too much, we'll still be fighting in 2015 working under the contract we have now.

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 875373)

I'm not against that stratedgy. While we have to present a united front, I see no prudence in holding out 5+ years trying to play Dubinsky, Jr. I'm far more concerned with incremental scope reclamation than a one shot walk off grand slam whipper contract that will be instantly gutted the next downturn anyway, and would probably come at the expense of more scope relief in the first place.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 875352)

Those lawsuits were stupid regional pilots going at it alone. They had no chance from the start. What happens when management steps in and makes it full merger and not a take over of the flying? You know legally there is no difference between a merger of NWA/DAL to say DAL/SKW. Only that ALPA would be kicked out the door because it is bound by the same policy of mergers between carriers of all sizes. ALPA merger policy would put regional lifers above mainline pilots, this is the exact scenario ALPA can not have at any cost.