Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 875363)

This is a concept that is frequently misunderstood. I and others get accused of having an "all or nothing on the first day of the contract" mentality towards restoration. Nothing could be further from the truth. Something like the example you gave would work just fine. The compounding effect of a 30% increase up front, followed by 5% per year for 4 years makes very significant progress towards restoration. This is all I'm asking... that the contract achieves significant progress if not total restoration. Unfortunately, I don't get the impression that this is the direction being advocated by this MEC. They seem to be keeping expectations much lower than that. The Chairman's Letter from today is a good example as it makes it sound as if our pay is already restored.

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 875406)

I think a "merger" between a ALPA regional carrier and DAL the above scenario would have a very slim chance of happening. If an agreement could not be reached between the two unions then it would go to arbitration just like the DAL/NWA merger did and look what happened. A list pretty much based on status and category (widebody CA, narrowbody CA, wide body FO, narrowbody FO). Since a regional guy never would have had access to larger equipment (career progression), the arbiter would have a hard time justifying merging them in with the overall list.

I've learned to never say never but I think it would be a stretch.

Denny

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 875421)

Well 88, even a 20% as you say is settling give you a 40% bump plus the DC bumps over four years. You say that is selling out. I say that is double the first increases we got for the JPWA.

(JPWA (17%) + C2012 (40) ((20, 25, 30, 35, 40 at dos +4) or to put it another way:
JPWA about a 18.11% increase of the start rates + C2012 rates which is really at the end of the contract on the amendable date a 45.86% bump off of the JPWA rates.
In the end it equates to a 72.28% increase off of our CH 11 contract. That will give you total restoration by anyone's math on Jan 1 2017 using 20% as a starting point. Not even 30 or 40 percent.

Public Math is dangerous, as I have had no coffee this AM. :D

Using 100 dollars as your starting hourly rate that will give you a rate of 172.28 on Jan 1, 2017 the date this contract would be amendable given an assumption that we never went in to section six and had a PWA to vote on NLT than Nov 2012.

I am just trying to let you see that even under what you term the wost case scenario your rate, not buying power, will be at or better that of the coveted C2K rates.

Add to it that you do not have to wait four or five years to get it. Like I have been saying look at it check my public math and contemplate it. There are many way to skin a cat. I also know that the guys that may be retired by that time want money in their pocket now and this accomplishes their goal as well as yours.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 875374)

Bingo. Else we come out looking like this again:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1935/img00257i.jpg

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 875451)

^^^ Another installment of our favorite game, Name That Base!!!

DTW!

Not because ATL or LAX or NYC or even MEM cant strip a Caddilac fast, its just that I know Jesse Jacksons remted Caddy got stripped in DTW a week or so ago.

Originally Posted by MoonShot (Post 875439)

So, AE results out today or are we going to have to mull about it over the weekend?

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 875423)

It is simple, it is not a merger. Should be single minded and not realize that leaving them in the dust would cause greater issues for the end goal? Nope. There are many things that can be done make a scope win for the "regional lifers" a win or status quo.

We always see fences on big jets. Well you can have a fence on small jets. Think of the XJ flow but internally. As a RJ guy bids to a DAL jet that seat is open for a mainline pilot to bid down if they so choose. If a regional guy has no desire to fly your metal, is number one on their seniority list, something could be worked out that for the purpose of bidding rights you bid below them. They would also never have the opportunity to bid up. As guys retire this whole fence would go away. It allows those guys to feel some level of protection and know that they will never have to be your FO unless all the jets are parked and or they choose to.

How we integrate the seniority list is really not that unknown. Category status and past hiring practices will be used. I do not see too many guys shucking mainline careers out of choice to go to a regional. If a prenup like with nominal protections for these guys cannot be ironed out, I think it is safe to assume that the arbitrated award would be category status.

Also remember that the flying they perform really is our flying that we have agreed to be previously flown my non delta pilots. That point is important.

In reality no one agrees on the if so the how is merely conjure at this point.