I think that may be reinventing the wheel a little too much, it's been hard enough to justify pay adjustments in reflection to seating capacity of a specific aircraft. Longevity pay raises makes sense in most jobs, but I think for pilots it always has and always will be different.

I think it would be difficult to to transition from our current compensation system to a longevity pay system with out imposing some type of pay cut to a large percentage of the pilot group.

In addition to this it will cause the salary cap timeline to be stretched out.
I like the idea of pilots being able to reach their salary cap in 12 years.
I also think the system of bidding aircraft, seats, and bases allows enough variety to line pilots so they can find a balance that works for them.

 

I absolutely agree and appreciate those steps but we can't discount what everyone was saying was the best furlough protection at the time- Compass.

More of that kind of stuff is always great, but we need, and they might be there already, penalties for top end international flying outsourcing with pilots on involuntary furlough.

 

So you bought it because it must have looked OK.... and then.. you get it home, and because you don't like the fact it was made in China, you threw it away... hmmmmm did you get your money back? Of course not.. so was your protest in vain? absolutely. The only one hurt was.. you.

Folks.. remember this concept when contract time rolls around.

 

FTB,

You are right and Sailing's giving you a white wash job.

When the Company was considering furloughs, the issue came up of how the Compass flow down was to operate. Among the many problems of the poorly thought out outsourcing scheme was the fact that Compass lacked the training resources and FAA approvals to dump the entire seniority list and staff with new hire DL pilots. Lee Moak and Bill Kessler stood at the corner of the room and held forth that "our scope works, by not working." That since if was such a mess and could not be implemented, it provided job protection. Now recall, those provisions were carried over from NWA and never intended to function at Delta. The JPWA was an opportunity to fix scope that we did not capitalize on. Provisions were simply pasted together without adequate consideration of their effect. Compass was one, the flow to ASA and Comair was an accidental inclusion (IMO) and we'd have done well to have rethought, Alaska, MidWest and the 76 seat scope definitions. As we all know, there was left over bargaining from merging Section 1.

Warning: I've gotten vehement confirmations and denials that the following ever took place, DYODD. According to management sources, Delta came to ALPA and asked about making CPZ Delta and letting people bid rather than force everybody down through one hole. The Company was thinking current book (CPZ rates). ALPA responded with current book (small jet flying per the DL contract). The discussion ended with no resolution because the economic forecasts changed, taking the pressure off of furlough.

I believe that had the need to right size this airline been much more than the CPZ list, the pressure would have overcome the limitation and washed over the dam like a tidal wave.

I too listened to Lee Moak, both in public and private meetings and frankly, I could not figure out if there was a lot he just did not know because he was insulated, or if it was political talk, or if he just is not a trade unionist at heart. To this day Lee Moak remains enigmatic because his stated positions on scope did not match policy, or actions. Further, the stated positions broke down after the first round of questions were asked. ... positions like expecting Teamsters and SkyWest (non union) to negotiate contracts which built a foundation under the Delta contract, making them do the heavy lifting for our scope. There is no hope that will ever work. A non union group of RJ pilots is not going to do a contract that sees "their work" diverted to mainline and Teamsters will screw us every chance they get because ... they are Teamsters. Positions, like claimang not to know we waived contractual language which stated we had flow rights to ASA and Comair. Action, like crushing any analysis of Compass, then having our MEC split on the divestiture. ... and 76 seat jets.

Further, Lee Moak was fully on board with management on outsourcing. He put together presentations explaining the economics of outsourcing and argued it benefits Delta pilots to outsource our work.

Sailing is correct, there were protections negotiated in our contract and the subsequent letters of agreement, but to state they had a grand plan which worked perfectly is stretching the truth a bit . The story that our "scope works by not working" does not indicate to me a grand plan. That indicates a happy accident and a fortuitous recovery.

Balance in reporting. I was pretty sure we would be sending out furlough notices right about now. I was mistaken (thank goodness) and we are hiring. We are hiring because our airline is doing well and in fact, everyone is doing well right now, even American and US Air.

 

.
Delta and the Unions - Robert VerBruggen - National Review Online
.

 

Nope- I didn't like it because in part I didn't care to have something possibly made of of lead. The cost of returning it to the store I found it in, over 3 hours away, would have been more than the cost in gas plus personal time.
Speaking of contractual concepts, what about the concept of making incorrect assumptions based on limited data and creating unintended consequences when people start asking, "Gee, I wish I had dug a little deeper and not simply assumed I had all the facts."

 

Well worth a read. Thank you for posting. I learned:

 

Compass was simply another layer and another category. It was not a bit different then another category at Delta. We had already dropped several categories which eliminated many layers of training in a furlough evolution. Compass was a layer and a part of a no furlough choice but nothing the company could not have easily handled. The company retrained every pilot at express in one of the furlough rounds. Many were trained at express knowing they would be furloughed 60 days later. A category is a category be it at Delta, Express or Compass.

 

Hey Satch,

Here's some background for ya': I spent 30 years at a purple cargo outfit with a unique payscale. We had Cap, fo/ so rates based on narrow body, and widebody rates going out to 15 years. later, we added A380 rates for that a/c alone.

When the a380 order was cancelled and the 777 substituted, the pilots/union lost a grievance for the 777 to pay 380 rates.....I'm sure the union boys will try to recover boosts to the 777 rate when the company comes sniffing for ULR rules.

Negotiated bumps are included for night/ intl/ etc. I felt this system was a good compromise between UPS ( cap or fo only ) and industry norm of a/c & seat specific.

It reduces the need to chase seats/ bases for a payraise, ie: the last years of my career, I stayed on the A300 instead of going to the MD11. Same pay, much better qol...for me.

The company wins with this system as it greatly reduces training events ,and keeps more guys actually available for line flying.

Here's the trick : use the reduction in training costs (big) and bump top tier pay for Carl, without a paycut for other groups....you could probably come close to cost-neutral for the company and give everyone an acceptable payrate increase, and better qol.

Maybe something like this: Super premium widebody(ha),744 &330,,,widebody,767.....narrow body, 757,MD90/88, A320/319, DC9.
Big bumps for night/ intl, etc.

I'm not advocating this, so save the arrows/ mortars, etc.......you asked how this might be implemented.

Regards

 

Nothing really new, politics operating as normal...pretty typical National Review.