Well, after seeing how the Music City Bowl ended tonight I think tsquare is NOT in a good mood.

"Scavenging for Hours" would make a great name for a new reality show...unfortunately too many have already shown their willingness for a role (roll?) on the company's casting couch!

What I'm referring to is the inefficiency that multiple aircraft types have on our productivity. For the sake of argument, let's say the average Southwest pilot blocks 900 hours per year, and the average Delta guy blocks 600 hours (I have no idea what the actual numbers are).

Delta has a large number of guys in training for a new airplane at any given time. How much does that bring down the average? Delta needs to have a larger contingent on reserve at any given time, because we have more categories of pilots. These pilots, especially in small categories, may not fly very much. How does that affect our average?

The nature of our operation permits less productivity than Southwest pilots, but it also allows for greater profits than the Southwest model. If the company raises the productivity issue when we benchmark SWA rates in 2012, I hope DALPA raises the BS flag.[/QUOTE]


Because of this difference, DAL should probably be credited with 5:00 hrs/day of differeces training to bring the COMPANY-ELECTED average up, to coincide with the COMPANY-ELECTED simple fleet at SWA. Might provide a better, more realistic comparison, IMMHO. :cool:


(P.S. I escaped from Cairo...FINALLY! :eek: )

Yes...better that we live to fight another day. :mad:

CAL's ALPA decided to fight THIS day...and won. Great example for all.

Carl

Somebody educate me.

Some folks are talking of mid contract improvements etc... Why would the company go for this? They certainly aren't obligated to are they?

Just trying to see how/why this would be possible. Seems to me if I was responsible to the shareholders, I wouldn't be in a rush to give pay and work rule improvements if I didn't have to.

How often are gains given inside of the amendable date? Seriously, curious, I have no clue how this works.

That said, I am all for early improvements!

You're correct in that the company is under no obligation. It could make sense to them as long as they got an extension of the amendable date and our pay increases beyond that kept us below industry standard. The argument would be to get increases now for the next two years that we would not have gotten, and in return, get paid less than what they project for pilots in 2013 and 2014.

Carl

Kept us below industry standard??? Carl, you need to re-check your facts. You're on the 747. You're pretty much the highest paid airline pilot out there at the moment. Here are the 1/1/2011 rates for the highest paying equipment at each airline:

DAL $217
LUV $214
AMR $205
CAL $193
UAL $190
USAir $160

And here are the rates for the 737-800 at each airline:

LUV $214
DAL $175
ALA $175
CAL $169
AMR $166
AWA $142
UAL $137
USAir $125

I agree we are way below what we used to get paid, and way below what we are "worth", but we're well above industry standard for all passenger airlines. Just the facts. Hmmm, who was the MEC Chairman that made that happen? ;)

Your own post and what you omit show that you need a fact check. You omit FDX and UPS...as always. Southwest and Airtran will make more than our 744/777 guys to fly 737's and 717's. That's below industry standard. But that wasn't the point of my post. My point was that management will be looking for keeping us below industry standard beyond the current amendable date of our contract in return for giving pay increases prior to the current amendable date. In my opinion, that is the only way management would consider opening the contract early.

Carl

Only in YOUR world Carl is $214 greater than $217. And of course I omit FDX and UPS, they are cargo carriers and are an entirely different industry. If you want to include them, then lets include all the other 747 operators out there. It's a REALLY long list, and you're still very near the top. Wanna go there?

Agreed. 2 things are missing: 1) UPS and FDX rates and 2) average credit. Pay rates/hour mean very little in comparing apples to apples. They must be combined with average credit to do a side-by-side. If the average WN CA credits 1,200/hours year vs. 1,000 at DL, for example, hourly rates either need to be higher or credit needs to come up (or both).