Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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01-02-2011 | 10:44 AM

#55731

Pineapple Guy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

That's not the question. The question is: Will the reps follow the will of the represented?

Carl, I have no doubt the reps will follow the will of the represented; but that will may or may not reflect the will of the APC forum, or the 747 crowd. Something to consider. Just because you don't get your way, doesn't mean the reps aren't following the will of those they represent.

01-02-2011 | 10:44 AM

#55732

NuGuy

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Joined: Mar 2008

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Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit

Your "people" don't know then.....Major changes in communications coming, and it's a 2-way street. Not going to be "at the pilots", think "between the pilots".

Maybe, maybe not.

We'll see how well PtP does when the current "DPA Threat" blows over, and then we'll be in a position to make that call.

My voice mail had 10 messages today alone with guys calling me about the "lack of scope message" (and one from the "IA Machine").

You can bet if the leadership was onboard with the Scope message, that the CA/UA Arbitration would be front page "in-your-face-when-you-log-into-DALPA" news.

Nu

01-02-2011 | 10:44 AM

#55733

Splash

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Joined: Mar 2010

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From: Boeing Boss

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuGuy

In UnionSpeak, what you don't say is louder than what you do...by several orders of magnitude.

By that logic, a blank memo signed by the MEC Chairman is the loudest possible message on all topics?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuGuy

Everything I've heard from people in the know is that the outgoing admin is going to look like a chatterbox compared to the incoming admin.

Maybe you only heard it because it was LOUDER because it wasn't stated at all...thereby having infinite volume under NuGuy's Law (see above).

01-02-2011 | 11:08 AM

#55734

shiznit

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Joined: Feb 2009

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From: right for a long, long time

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuGuy

ok, I buy that. I do believe the P2P restart as a permanent fixture isn't because of DPA sentiment, but we will both have to wait and see.

DALPA isn't in the middle of negotiations right now, hence there is no practical reason to poke the hornets nest with in-you-face-when-you-log-in types of messages. I'm guessing and it is just a guess, that we will definitely see much more "fire up the troops" type things when it becomes a useful tool. Right now, "happy pilots" is useful in chipping away at BK contract issues slowly....Section 6 is when "unhappy pilots" become a much more useful threat. Because of "status quo" requirements in negotiations, there are limited options to inflict pressure on the company to act.... If I were in charge, I'd save my ammo for when it was going to have max effect.

01-02-2011 | 11:16 AM

#55735

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

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From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

1. They're not alone.
2. "Probably"?
3. Understatement of the year, but it's only January.
4. Ahh...the age-old Quality vs Quantity issue.
5. Maybe you should underline more, or use larger font.
6. I'm liking our reps more and more...
7. Your posted REFUSED to mention pay restoration! You are trying to manage our expectations!

Cyber-stalkers are weird.

Carl

01-02-2011 | 11:20 AM

#55736

RockyBoy

Doesn't Get Weekends Off

Joined: Jun 2007

Posts: 2,599

Likes: 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

We also need a block hr min, and a min percentage of Skyteam flying that all the skyteam carriers and Skyteam management sign on to.

^^^^

That is probably just as important (I lean towards more important) as holding the line on 76-seat scope. Losing one JFK-CDG flight per day to a SkyTeam partner will cost alot more jobs than losing ATL-BHM once per day will cost us.

We all watched the bottom of the list get outsourced to DCI over the last 10 years and I don't want to sit and watch the top of the list get outsouced to SkyTeam the next 10 years.

01-02-2011 | 11:29 AM

#55737

Carl Spackler

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From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Carl;

I want what you want. A agreement in the PWA that states that there will be no new, renewed, extended or modified ASA, Code Shares, or JV's signed without our approval. Period.

That is exactly what I want. I fly with guys that have single digit seniority numbers, and guys in the 9,000's. Not one of them says that they don't want this. My DTW reps want this. You say your reps want this. How could this not have made the bullet point list of what O'Malley says we want? How could he have not heard this? Is Moak's voice louder? Is ALPA national's voice louder? So far, his letter shows me that these voices are indeed louder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

We also need a block hr min, and a min percentage of Skyteam flying that all the skyteam carriers and Skyteam management sign on to.

I agree. Would have been another great bullet point for Mr. O'Malley. If he agreed with you/us that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

I have no idea what the MEC or MEC Council (reps) will do. We need a survey to find our majority position first.

That will be an interesting survey. Will the question be: "How would you feel about a 75% pay increase while also helping our fellow ALPA brothers at the regionals increase their quality of life?"

Or will the question be: "Would you be willing to strike over any additional jobs being outsourced from Delta Air Lines to any other entity?"

Carl

01-02-2011 | 11:36 AM

#55738

firstmob

Line Holder

Joined: Feb 2009

Posts: 851

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Yes, and my reps are sick of hearing from me too, but that is part of the job.

Yes, we will see what Tim does. It is after all his second day on the job.

If our reps can't take the heat they should get out of the kitchen. They knew the mood of the pilot group regarding scope when they ran for office.

01-02-2011 | 11:36 AM

#55739

Carl Spackler

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From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Iah;
A few points.

1) The 76 seat settlement was a grievance settlement and did not require the MEC Councils vote. I think from discussions with many reps, that the process was not the one that should have been taken.

There was nothing to keep Moak from asking for a sign off by the reps. Moak chose not to. I'm glad you're hearing that shouldn't have been done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Fact is that no matter what he would have written or omitted, someone would have gotten upset.

I liked the letter except for this glaring omission. The omission was so big, it has tainted the rest of the letter and Mr. O'Malley in my eyes. He can correct it with another letter. (Sound of crickets).

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

In the end, I am not going to lose sleep over this first letter. I know my reps position and the fact is that as long as they are there, SJS sales are off the table. We will fly them here. Period.

Let's hope you don't wake up to another "deal" having been done with or without the reps. It will be too late then.

Carl

01-02-2011 | 11:37 AM

#55740

johnso29

Moderator

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 13,088

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From: B757/767

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetnwa

Johnson,

Whether the CSeries is in production or not yet doesn't change the fact it is on the horizon or some other variation will be. Anyone should go to the Bombardier website and try telling me it is just a "placeholder". It is a replacement aircraft and potential gamechanger. Just because you don't like the message, it doesn't change the fact the 100 seat pressure is there to be outsourced.

IMHO, I highly doubt we will have a 12,000 pilot list 10 years from now. I didn't say guys will get furloughed but I believe attrition will make it a smaller airline while code shares, JVs and potentially bigger RJs will take more and more of the mainline pie. Please show me where the growth aircraft are? The company has made it very clear they don't want encumber the balance sheet with new aircraft orders. Even the used aircraft we are getting will most likely replace other, older mainline ships.

As for "Complaining" about a threat to my career again, well Johnson, I don't know when you were hired. A lot of us pre 2001 NWA/DAL hires have been "around the block" with this issue and it wasn't fun. Taking a very vocal, hard line attitude on Scope is an important issue for us. The "silence" from the MEC on this matter has been deafening. Maybe they have it suitcased and are just being quiet about it?

As I said before, there is a difference between being "furloughed" and having your job "outsourced". Seeing mainline aircraft parked while on the street, then watching huge growth in larger RJs on those former routes, tends to stick in your craw and make one a little more militant.

I know two of my DTW reps very well and talk to them often. With that being said, it still doesn't change the threat or economic pressures that the company may want to use for a deal. Whether you like it or not, I have no doubt with enough money on the table, you will find 51% of any pilot group who will vote "Yes".

Ok, but Compass came because of BK. No leverage there for management. The airline is making record profits. And if they don't want to put aircraft on the balance sheet, then who is going to buy the RJ's? Fee for departure contracts are dead, so Regionals are losing $$$ to spend on lease payments. Not likely they'll be able to but a fleet of 100 seat aircraft.

Also, in order for 51% to vote to loosen scope, the proposition to do so has to make it to MEMRAT. That's unlikely.