Well, I have lived and been based in Cincinnati for 20+ years now, so I am pretty much right in the middle of that problem. We used to have almost 1000 pilots here, now we are down to 450 or so. Most of us think we will have to be making the choice to either commute or move pretty soon. If your base is closed you get a paid move, but that is a hard choice for a family. In the end, I think it is a choice, but that is just my opinion.

That would be a very low cost change. I know the scheduling guys and they work pretty hard to try to get improvements for all of us. Right now, SOC and the base realignments are sucking out all of the oxygen from flight ops. Maybe this is something that they can work on soon.

The jumpseat booking window would be easy to change. Whether it is 10 days or 3 days you are competing against the same population to book the jumpseat so I am not sure how that changes things that much. I guess for guys on those long trips it makes it easier to book ahead of time.

The call in honest program at NWA was better and I think everyone prefers that. It was a policy at NWA and not a contractual benefit so it is difficult to demand that policy. I am pretty sure ALPA is trying to get this policy as the new Delta policy. The whole mess with the flight attendant election is affecting flight operations decisions. It is not how it should be, but it is how it actually is. I think we should be able to get this policy in the end, we may just have to wait a little.

So the AE bid has been closed now for almost 15 minutes....I'm sure that's enough time for the computer to run it.........where are the results? This is an outrage!!!!

















Just wanted to be the first.....:D

Cherry Garcia - you are right. It is an outrage! If it isn't out by lunch we need to find the inflatable rat!

Alpha - the NWA Call in Honest would have made a lot of difference in how people bid. Many of us would have remained on the same airplane instead of taking a different position to remain in our preferred base.

The FA issue - such as it is - cost the Company a lot of training. Training that will be for a very short term use of pilots if ACL65 was correct that this spring will see a bid which reinstates many to their previously held positions.

Anyone got a theory as to when we'll learn our fate? I mean, when will the results of the bid be posted?

If anyone did bid to commute, how did you make the math work on that? On the narrow body jets, for FO's, a guy would have to really, really, hate Douglas equipment to chase a A320, or 737, across the Country for 5 to 7 hours a month equivalent pay.

They are planning on posting the results on the first. I think that is fair. We can wait.

They have been running results through the whole thing to see how big the bid is. They will run it a few times with a few different things taken out. The will try to minimize the training footprint as much as possible.

[quote

Anyone got a theory as to when we'll learn our fate? I mean, when will the results of the bid be posted? quote]

Well the bid said for sure not until the 1st. I would doubt that anyone would work on the 1st except they need to give people scheduled for training x number of days notice. So my guess is the 1st or the 4th or sometime in january or not at all. There covered all my bets:o

Fish, call em, they will tell ya they are "planning" the first. I bet they can do that from home! ;)

Not until SOC is publically announced, probably some time after the new year.

Denny

What can they change? The bid is for surplus and open positions as posted on the AE. Can they just decide to change the numbers?

Yes, they can not displace as many as posted and they can offer more positions than posted.

Topic Change - VACATION WEEK LIST - for those who need to get in that last minute bid.

http://annystudio.com/calendars/2010weeks-iso.gif

What are you talking about???

Yeah, primary bids don't close until Jan 8th. Plenty of time to procrastinate......

I think he's moved on to the vacation bid deadline thats coming up. THings move fast and furious around here. :D

Sorry, but it is not really a good attitude. We have a Union here, remember? And the Union will be as effective as we make it to be.
The scheduling doesn't have to agree to anything. They just follow the contract.

We may have a union, but they have repeatedly shown that the reserve pilot is not their focus. Scheduling has way too much leeway in the assignment of reserve obligations.

They can opt not to displace as many as posted, AE more positions than posted, and not backfill or backfill more positions that posted. They are only required to AE as many positions as the position notice stated.

I cannot wait for SOC to occur. Lots of little and big events should transpire in the weeks and months following it.

They are just announcing the 31st. I am sure we have it, but it serves no purpose to come out a few days early stating so. Either way we are one big happy family, on time on the date that RA put out 18 months ago. That is a tremendous job by all divisions and our association.
Congrats guys on a job well done!

I disagree. I agreed once, but after talking to many of the ppl that designed this system and when it was designed and why, I can see the intent behind it.
There are some major improvements that are low and no cost items that need to be improved asap. Our new Vice-Chair of C44 has stated that it is his goal to engage the company in some low and no cost items when it enters office. I beleive him. He has spent considerable time working on Section 23. Give him a shout and tell him what you think.

And there it is... Kool-aid infused BS... nothing more. Sorry, he can justify it like anything else just by saying "How much will it cost?" Ya know what... applying seniority parameters to the reserve system will no more bankrupt this company than will giving us all the $100/month kumbaya bonus. LUV and Jblu do not "clean our clocks" because of the reserve system. That is utterly ridiculuous. We are a different animal than either of those 2 companies, and for alpa to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best. Sure, we both fly airplanes, but that is where it ends. It is not OUR responsibility to pay for things. We are seniority based employees, and for the reason of "Son... you'll be senior some day".. it has been, and apparently will be continue to be allowed to abbrogate seniority to placate somebody's theory that seniority application to a reserve system will bankrupt the company. To quote Tim Bohan.. "Same as it ever was".

Edit addition: My complaint isn't necessarily with the whole reserve system either alfa... What burns my bagels is that retarded days of availability and how it relates to "yellowslipping" open time trips. THAT abrogates seniority big time, and is totally unsat.

Where do we go to find out how many days we have to bid for vacation? Is it the same as DALN where you have to bid it or its assigned?

Apathy is bad. Lets stick together and get what we want.

Good luck with that.. let me know how it works for us. Oh.. nevermind.

At least somebody gets it. But like alfa says, for you to exercise your seniority, the company will go bankrupt, because we can't compete with LUV so forget it. You'll be senior enough to hold a line someday.

Pretty sad post, really..

Go to section 7 of the contract and it shows a chart for vacation weeks earned based on an April 1st vacation year start date. For 1-5 years completed by April 1st you get 2 weeks, 6 to 11 years-3 weeks, 12 to 18 years-4 weeks and 19+ years-5 weeks.

To bid go to the vacations tab in dbms. I believe it is option e for the vacation selection start dates. Option a under the vacations tab is where you enter your bids.

Denny

Can you insert a picture of Meyer and Tebow here? :eek:

Will do. I've mentioned it to the 66 reps as well. I guess this could come under the cone of silence theory!

I think the total reserve system doesn't need to be thrown out either. We need to find some middle ground. The old system was not efficient, but I did love it. The new system disregards seniority. You nailed it with the day groupings. I was recently in day groupings with very few others all month. Myself and the few other lucky fellows got to fly all month while the rest of the reserve group, mostly junior to me flew much less, simply because of the number of pilots in that particular day grouping. The crazy thing was my raw score was so much higher. That was not efficient and it abrogated seniority.

Most don't understand the reserve system because they have never worked under it. As more do with this AE, I think the reps will hear more and it will become more of a priority to the group, especially now that more will be commuting.

If you go to the vacation menu and then select Option A for initials and enter. The next screen tab down and select Option F for individual days to bid.

Did they send us a vacation bidding guide as well, Denny?

It's amazing to me how fast I'm going from one subject or or porcess or bid to another to which I have no clue. (PBS, AE, Vacation, ect.) :)

Same thing with our uniform...I think some of our own pilots are the main obstacle to getting a comfortable, functional uniform.

And there it is....an immature emotional outburst. See how easy it is to make personal attacks rather than deal with facts. If you read closely I never said that changing reserve will bankrupt the company, by the way that argument is really childish. I said that making the reserve system less efficient would cost money, and that that cost would impact improvements in other areas of the contract. If you don't think that is true then show me how that works. Again, throwing a temper tantrum really isn't proof of anything.

If you don't think pilot efficiency affects our total cost structure in relation to other airlines then you have no grasp on reality. I can guarantee you that any executive or any accountant or any union leader in any union you can find would agree with my stance. If we are inefficient in comparison to our competitors (surely you think that Jet Blue, Southwest, and Airtran are our competitors because they sure do) then that inefficiency will have to be made up with lower wages and/or benefits or the company will have to find a way to increase revenue above the competitors. That is not Kool-Aid my friend, that is basic economics.

I think I was also quite clear that I have no objection to improving the reserve system. I am on short call as I type. The one thing about reserve is that is not just junior pilots. We have very senior pilots sitting reserve on the highest paying equipment. So your attempt at class warfare and junior self pity just doesn't ring true.

What I have an objection to is self-delusion that is presented as a belief that you can improve your own little beefs with the contract for nothing. It has a cost, everything has a cost. I also said that the pilots and the MEC will have to decide where they want to put money in our contract when we get a better contract. Maybe it will be reserve, maybe it will be vacation, maybe pay, maybe any of the other items that exist in the contract. Maybe you will get your way and maybe you won't, that's how it works.

As for the days of availability buckets, that is basically universal in the industry. Getting rid of that will be very expensive. Obviously, if you let the guy with 4 days of availability take the two day trip, then how do you get the guy with 2 days of availability to take the four day trip without paying overtime? Sure it stinks, I have been hit by this many times.

You might have more success if you avoid the pointless personal attacks and really think about what you are saying. Your post makes no sense.

Easy now Mister!

Anyone want to guess what the most surprising result of this AE might be?

My uninformed, first AE, intuition thinks MSP M88A will go pretty junior. Like 10,000. Maybe even 10,500.

Yes, I'm bored.

I'm not Denny but there's the Delta MEC Scheduling Alert 09-04 dated December 1, 2009 that's a Vacation Bidding Guide.

Thanks, NO. :)

Not too many.

I bet 12,000. MSP M88 are new positions in addition to the current A320 FO positions. Additionally, MSP is a bit further west than the other bases making for a longer commute, I'm guessing junior.

"Jacta Alea Est!";)

Agree 100% The coat is great at a Dining In, useless on a layover and even less useful on an 0500 walkaround, winds gusting,-16C. And no, I don't think I should carry a third coat, Delta approved, for just my walkarounds, to and from the crew van or hotel bus. That would make for dragging 3 coats along in the winter. FYI, I don't spend much time in the hotels, even when it's horrible out.