I had heard that the white papers had been written on a swa/aai 717 and Saudi MD90 acquistion. Finding the solution to a single category was in progress. As shiznit pointed out the fcp and overheads on our 88/90, 717 and Saudi 90s are all different but the displays were the biggest hurdles. The 88/90 upgrade was presented at the board last fall. The pics are floating around especially at the training center.

PICTURE: Southwest launches 737-300 cockpit upgrade with Boeing and GE

the transition could work if the faa gave us permissionfor a single category you could make initially a seperate 717/90 category and grow it with every newly configured DAL 88/90, 717 and Saudi until the 88 category is gone. Question, what would you call the category, I'm thinking MB79. That way it trumps the 765 as nonsensical category name of the fleet.

I like the top chart because you have rates for "THE DC9". The bottom chart just has "DC9"

Exactly. I can see all kinds of potential for a "lose-lose". We don't want to help LUV get gates via the merger, and facilitate the merger for them by taking planes and employees, and they don't want gates they don't have airplanes for. LUV couldn't possibly grow 30% in ATL by taking an axe to their fleet.

If there were any such discussions, they would center around the orderly disposal of a fairly large fleet of recent small NB airplanes, and involve the lessors, etc. It might keep the value of the airframes a little higher for LUV, give Delta an opportunity to tap into a good option for recent NB A/C in a gauge we're losing. Order and control, while each side can schedule appropriate deliveries (717's for DAL, 737's for LUV), might mean a win-win.

It's true that none of us want to see planes come with pilots, and since we always like to spin rumors the way we want them to turn out, maybe it's wishful thinking on my part... but I don't see it as one large transaction upfront, with pilots and employees.

If my memory serves me correctly, Boeing owns the paper on Air Tran's 717's. Boeing surely won't let SWA out of those leases unless another carrier agrees to take them in lieu; they would be a tough lease/purchase for Boeing to negotiate in this market. On the other hand, DAL may be able to secure a preferable rate or price on the 717's when considering the colossal failure of the 787 and the financial impact to DAL caused by the Boeing delays. In all reality, those 717's hold little value to the other US major airlines and the rest of the world has long gone the route of 737/320.

If what I have heard is true, the 717 shares commonality with the Saudi MD-90's which might make for a common fleet type and a fleet large enough with sustainable economics well into the future. The last results I heard of showed strong sustainability with the MD-88 at $3.50 gallon over ten-year leases on 320/737's.

It would be interesting if DAL would consider updating the existing or longer-term 88/90's to the newer cockpit configuration. I buddy of mine claims $2 mln a copy to convert an 88/older-90 to glass.

Excellent points. It would be something if LUV sent the 717's away and then attempted another merger with Alaska. Some interesting changes going on over there, Alaska seems to be the hot ticket for someone.

Thanks, it fits in with your other post, above.

...I didn't know that LUV ever made a run at ALK (?). What do you think is happening over there to indicate an imminent change?

And since I'm asking questions, why does everyone assume LUV would be hesitant to operate the 717? It's said to have great economics, and since it's a smaller gauge, it's a good opportunity to compete with our RJ's, while offering a "large" airplane, yet not offering too much capacity on thin routes. I know that analysts love to talk about LUV's single-fleet miracle being the key to success, but they also buy into Delta's love for having all kinds of new airplanes to match demand with capacity post-merger.

I think what makes LUV work is great yield management, directly selling to the customer, and their relationship with their employees. Add a little luck, and a model that's allowed them to operate from a secondary airport to a secondary airport (until now), good management, and "pouf" you've got a great airline. "Great" doesn't mean afraid of experimenting. If the 717 could be such a valuable asset to us, there is a pretty good chance it might be valuable to them.

Anybody really think with the holes in our Section 1 and all the talk about signing up providers for additional outsourced flying that 117 seat jets are coming to mainline?

I would be very surprised.

Bar, I would say that too until I announced otherwise. Think about it.

From my understanding Horizon was being rebranded as a connection carrier, losing their jets and other feed operators would step in with CRJ's. Just seems like a strange move for an airline with a niche market and a desire to stand alone. Just a hunch, but it seems like Alaska wants the RJ's off their books; whether that desire is internal or external remains to be determined.

Alaska would bring a stronger west coast presence, Hawaiian, Mexico and Canadian flying to LUV. At the same time this would pull the rug out from under AA and DAL on the west coast. After LUV targeted DAL in ATL such a move would only make sense, especially when considering the point to point flying Alaska performs.

I'm not so sure if the purchase of Air Tran wasn't simply to take another LCC off the map and better align LUV against the big 3. The next five years should be some of the most interesting in history.

I'm probably way off.