Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Readback (Post 985601)

Congress gave workers in the transportation industry the right to strike via the process contained in the RLA. Part of that process is the President's ability to form a PEB. In other words, the President did not "steal" the right to strike.

Two things. First, a PEB only delays the right to strike for 30 days. After that, Congress has the right to implement a contract...but to my knowledge, that has never been done. Second, a PEB is not how the White House is removing our right to strike. That is done through the NMB that is currently acting as it has never acted before. Parking labor groups indefinitely if they don't agree with the labor group. Acting as a judge and arbitrator as opposed to a mediator which is what the National Mediation Board is supposed to do. The NMB is under the executive branch of government (The White House). This is how the White House is effectively removing our right to strike. Through the NMB, not a PEB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Readback (Post 985601)

IMHO APA, or any other pilot union not affiliated with the AFL/CIO will NEVER be allowed to strike. The reason? They are not AFL/CIO affiliated. A Dem. pres. will not let them strike to show the public he is not beholden to the AFL (see APA mid 90s). A Rep. pres. won't let them strike because his support comes from business.

I don't think the facts support that opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Readback (Post 985601)

Clinton allowed NWA to strike in the 90s because they were ALPA, and therefore AFL/CIO, affiliated.

I was actually part of that strike back then so I have first hand knowledge. This was back when the NMB was actually a mediation board instead of a judge. When we let the NMB know that we were at an impasse, the NMB started the 30 day cooling off period and the strike deadline was set. We went on strike. The Clinton administration threatened our management with a number of items that would have made our Pacific growth very difficult if they didn't get back to the table. The Clinton administration threatened us with a PEB if we didn't get back to the table. The threats worked. We all got back to the table and we hammered out an agreement. I don't think AFL/CIO affiliation meant anything because we were threatened with a PEB.

Carl

Uh-oh.
Big capacity reductions coming "post labor day".

Parking additional 20 mainline aircraft. (including some widebodies)
+120 "small gauge domestic" aircraft. (all RJs?) (DC-9s?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 985637)

Carl, you are just flat out wrong, once again. Sorry, but your facile theories do not match reality. I have to say, you do get an "A" for creative writing, but for actual real negotiations you, as usual, just make things up.

Look, don't believe me, why don't you read the letters that the new APA President is putting out to his pilots. He lays down the facts exactly as I said they are. Is he simply lying to his pilots?

The NMB's role is to ensure the continuity of the transportation system, look in the RLA it states it there explicitly. They act as mediators, often for many years, to try to force an agreement and avoid disruptions. The idea that the NMB stepped away because the APA had too many issues is ridiculous. Where you come up with this tripe is beyond me. Their job is to work through the issues, no matter how many there are until an agreement is reached.

The problem with the APA is that they are asking for $1,5 billion in contract improvements. Their company lost $1 billion last year. Anyone that owns or operates a business or ever has could tell you how that math works out. People who say, "well they can just raise ticket prices" should explain why AMR management didn't do that last year and not lose $1 billion. There is no path to agreement unless the APA makes some fundamental changes to their approach. The alternative is to wait until their airline is making billions in profits, which might occur a decade or so from now.

So, Carl, you either fail to learn your lesson or you just continue your "internet act" of gadfly. You don't understand negotiations, you don't understand the RLA, you don't understand the NMB, and in the absence of knowledge you fill in the gaps with fairy tale fantasies.

The APA board of directors is trying to change course, the APA President is trying to change course, the only one who thinks the ship is heading in the right direction is Carl. Of course Carl, a sideline barker, never has to explain to pilots why they have gone 4,5,6, or more years with no compensation increases. Carl can simply sit on the sidelines and throw bricks. Excellent work if you can get it.

Your silly name calling notwithstanding, my description of what has occured at American and their experience with the NMB is exactly correct.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by NERD (Post 985648)

Is it just me, or has every airline that lost money is being bled by outsourced rjs?

The data thus far sure supports that. But to put a finer point on it, we are being bled by outsourced rj's to which we are guaranteeing their profits.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddis (Post 985646)

Obviously special circumstances will apply. I feel for the parent of the special needs child.

However I would say both of those are a minority for our over 60 crowd. I don't keep track but between the jump seat and the guys I have flown with that are over 60, a dozen or more, only 1 guy was staying for that type of reason. The others were staying because they could.

When it comes down to it the law is 65. As we go further along this road those of us without pensions will be getting towards that age and I will guess fewer will go at 60 then do now.

I agree. Individual circumstances are different for everyone. Some financial, some not. As you said, the bottom line is the retirement age is now 65. No one has to stay that long if they don't want to. Very few fnwa guys have $8000 retirements. Even if they do, one must take less then that if they want their survivors to keep receiving any funds once they die. I know this might be hard for many to believe but some actually like their job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 985655)

Which is why I said the MEC will have tough decisions. The number of people that participate in the DALPA forum, here, and other forums is probably less than 1/2 of 1% of the pilot group. The MEC can pander to that 1/2% because they hate being called names by these forum people or they can take a leadership stand and respond to the needs of those 99 1/2% that don't visit the forums.

I have seen it before when LEC reps let these loud mouths wrap them around their fingers and respond to their constant harping. In order to find out what the rest of the pilots think, they have to get out into the lounges and seek out their pilots and use the Wilson polling to get the bigger picture. It takes a lot of work but in the end you will produce better results than listening to those few. As I said before, all of these crazy theories were tested just a few years ago and they all failed. At Delta, we avoided those traps and produced the best results amongst our peer groups. Sometimes you have to have a complete failure before you can really succeed. Maybe that's where we are now. It depends upon the leadership qualities of the MEC.

Again, this is so illustrative of what an entrenched ALPA apologists thinks of the pilots they represent. Totally make up a number like 99 1/2% of the pilots don't visit forums, etc.

You're going to have to adapt to the internet alfa. Your days of isolating and shaming pilots who disagree are over. These forums allow interested pilots to hear opinions, read facts, then decide the difference via their own research. Not just from the info fed to us by carefully worded union scripts. Your name calling only feeds the opposition, and shows how shallow the support really is for ALPA.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 985673)

Uh-oh.
Big capacity reductions coming "post labor day".

Parking additional 20 mainline aircraft. (including some widebodies)
+120 "small gauge domestic" aircraft. (all RJs?) (DC-9s?)

Where did you read this or hear this?

Yo Slow. Chirp. Chirp Chirp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplay http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif
The management guy has time to post your responses in multiple threads, but he never answered my question about Hawaiian being a Delta peer either...the one where Hawaiian's creditors were paid 100 cents on the dollar in their sham bankruptcy. Delta pilots were the second largest creditor in our trip through the courts and got 60 cents on the dollar. The largest creditor only got 46 cents...:(

Slow, Mr. Comm chair &/or Mr. Teasurer:

Hawaiian Airlines. Did or did they not file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on March 21, 2003?

Hawaiian Airlines. Did or did they not receive court approval for its reorganization plan that included renegotiated contracts with its union work groups under an 1113 provision?

In regards to Hawaiian again. Did ALPA or did ALPA not negotiate a TA that was voted down by the pilots by a 55 to 45 margin causing Hawaiian to then threaten to return to the court to obtain a contract?

Did the Hawaiian pilots, or did they not, then approve their second TA that contained a much better deal and was negotiated, rather than concieved by the judge, through the same 1113 process and code Delta pilots were working with in BK court?

And finally, to your often repeated claim that Hawaiian was involved in a "sham" bankruptcy, and that fact must be true because their creditors received 100%on their claims:

Multiple parties were bidding on Hawaiian as they were set to emerge from court reorganization. The bidding war per se was what enabled theose creditors to obtain that kind of return, not the "sham" bankruptcy.

Bullish in bankruptcy

With Hawaiian reporting this week the best first-quarter operating profit in its history and the 12th straight month in the black, prospective bidders were getting financial data from the trustee to polish their plans.
Adams and Carty got general financial data last week and have submitted a request for more specific data covering individual route profitability.
The process is similar to due diligence when a prospective purchaser of a business looks at the books. But when Adams heard this, he chuckled.
"There is one big difference from regular due diligence," he said. "They're the sellers, but we think their forecast is a lot more dismal than ours will be."
Hawaiian management has warned employees that current profitability could be a window of profits that closes later if mainland airlines enter Hawaiian's best-performing routes.
Carty doesn't think so. Mainland carriers not already flying to Hawaii tend not to have the right aircraft for the run.
"Southwest and America West couldn't fly here without changing their business model," he said.
Other bidders also said they think Hawaiian and Aloha have found a niche in their mainland routes that would be difficult for other airlines to exploit, especially in the next few years when they are likely to be concentrating on improving the profitability of the routes they already have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 985696)

Where did you read this or hear this?

It is on the Earnings Conference Call - 20 international widebodies, specific aircraft to be determined, focus on Atlantic capacity reductions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Fessional (Post 985698)

It is on the Earnings Conference Call - 20 international widebodies, specific aircraft to be determined, focus on Atlantic capacity reductions.

How does this relate to AF/KLM codeshare?