Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-29-2011 | 07:52 PM
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From: Kickin’ Back
Denny-
You are correct. Sorry if I was not clear.
I have no problem with DBMS "Swap with the pot". The problem is the swap with friends and/or pick-up board. That little jewel is what allows the trip parking and schedule manipulation outside the contractual protections.
If there's a way to fix it that would allow the swap scenario you described while preventing the unethical contract violating aspects, then I would be in favor.
Until then- it is an abomination. I can hardly believe that DALPA has allowed it for this long. There must be a good reason our union wants to reduce manning but I can't think of what that would be. Why don't we go back to "vacation selling"? That's the ticket. We should have a "Sell your vacation" board.That's another real money-maker for those guys flying 140 hours a month. No more of that pesky time off to worry about.
You are correct. Sorry if I was not clear.
I have no problem with DBMS "Swap with the pot". The problem is the swap with friends and/or pick-up board. That little jewel is what allows the trip parking and schedule manipulation outside the contractual protections.
If there's a way to fix it that would allow the swap scenario you described while preventing the unethical contract violating aspects, then I would be in favor.
Until then- it is an abomination. I can hardly believe that DALPA has allowed it for this long. There must be a good reason our union wants to reduce manning but I can't think of what that would be. Why don't we go back to "vacation selling"? That's the ticket. We should have a "Sell your vacation" board.That's another real money-maker for those guys flying 140 hours a month. No more of that pesky time off to worry about.
Denny
05-29-2011 | 07:58 PM
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From: Light Chop
80 you're thinking as a pilot and are forgetting the management side of the equation as well as the legal side of it.
We pilots assign a hierarchy to our profession, that being:
student -> private -> commercial -> flight instructor -> regional -> mainline -> astronaut -> NewK
However, the legal system and management don't see it that way. All they see are:
Current rates of pay -> career expectations
The problem lies in the career expectations, since management can tweak this in favor of the regional pilots if they want leverage against mainline pilots.
Imagine I was management at Delta and wanted to get concessions out of your group. All I have to do is say I will merge you guys with Comair and you are pretty much forced into those concessions. However, as management I can't overstep to the point you guys start voting with your feet.
Merging with Comair might not seem as bad as it sounds, but remember as management I still have 76 seat scope relief so after all is said and done I can send their planes to Skywest. However, before I do that I set Comair's contract rates to $500 an hour, which doesn't matter since the planes are going away. But this puts them in a position to have all of Delta stapled below them in a SLI. This is since both their current rates and career expectations are now way above that of any mainline pilot.
We pilots assign a hierarchy to our profession, that being:
student -> private -> commercial -> flight instructor -> regional -> mainline -> astronaut -> NewK
However, the legal system and management don't see it that way. All they see are:
Current rates of pay -> career expectations
The problem lies in the career expectations, since management can tweak this in favor of the regional pilots if they want leverage against mainline pilots.
Imagine I was management at Delta and wanted to get concessions out of your group. All I have to do is say I will merge you guys with Comair and you are pretty much forced into those concessions. However, as management I can't overstep to the point you guys start voting with your feet.
Merging with Comair might not seem as bad as it sounds, but remember as management I still have 76 seat scope relief so after all is said and done I can send their planes to Skywest. However, before I do that I set Comair's contract rates to $500 an hour, which doesn't matter since the planes are going away. But this puts them in a position to have all of Delta stapled below them in a SLI. This is since both their current rates and career expectations are now way above that of any mainline pilot.
That's a lot of effort on the side of management to just force the pilots to take concessions. If there is ever a mainline/RJ merger it'll be a staple but if Delta wouldn't merge with Compass I don't think they'll ever merge with a regional and give up their whipsaw.
The better way to get concessions, hostages via furlough.
Which reminds me of that scene from Top Secret!:
General Streck, German High Command: [talking on the phone] What is the condition of Sergeant Kruger?
[pause]
Very well, let me know if there is any change in his condition.
[Hangs up]
He's dead.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 05-29-2011 at 08:10 PM.
05-29-2011 | 08:03 PM
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From: Kickin’ Back
However, the legal system and management don't see it that way. All they see are:
Current rates of pay -> career expectations
The problem lies in the career expectations, since management can tweak this in favor of the regional pilots if they want leverage against mainline pilots.
Imagine I was management at Delta and wanted to get concessions out of your group. All I have to do is say I will merge you guys with Comair and you are pretty much forced into those concessions. However, as management I can't overstep to the point you guys start voting with your feet.
Merging with Comair might not seem as bad as it sounds, but remember as management I still have 76 seat scope relief so after all is said and done I can send their planes to Skywest. However, before I do that I set Comair's contract rates to $500 an hour, which doesn't matter since the planes are going away. But this puts them in a position to have all of Delta stapled below them in a SLI. This is since both their current rates and career expectations are now way above that of any mainline pilot.
Current rates of pay -> career expectations
The problem lies in the career expectations, since management can tweak this in favor of the regional pilots if they want leverage against mainline pilots.
Imagine I was management at Delta and wanted to get concessions out of your group. All I have to do is say I will merge you guys with Comair and you are pretty much forced into those concessions. However, as management I can't overstep to the point you guys start voting with your feet.
Merging with Comair might not seem as bad as it sounds, but remember as management I still have 76 seat scope relief so after all is said and done I can send their planes to Skywest. However, before I do that I set Comair's contract rates to $500 an hour, which doesn't matter since the planes are going away. But this puts them in a position to have all of Delta stapled below them in a SLI. This is since both their current rates and career expectations are now way above that of any mainline pilot.
Do you really think management would try to do this and **** off a group of 12000+ guys in favor of less than a 1000? Dream on.........
Denny
05-29-2011 | 08:10 PM
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From: 765-A
ftb & Satch,
I can't remember who was the history buff between you two. But, either way or both, I think I mentioned a great book I read years ago called April 1865. Tonight on the History Channel they made it into a 2 hour special. Check it out if you can.
I can't remember who was the history buff between you two. But, either way or both, I think I mentioned a great book I read years ago called April 1865. Tonight on the History Channel they made it into a 2 hour special. Check it out if you can.
05-29-2011 | 08:13 PM
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From: Light Chop
Thanks.
05-29-2011 | 08:15 PM
:-)
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Are you saying what you get paid equals career expectations in the eye of the legal (arbitrator) system? No, but I like to keep my posts short to avoid tldr (too long didn't read).
Do you really think management would try to do this and **** off a group of 12000+ guys in favor of less than a 1000? No I don't because my example is a very extreme one, however, it is completely possible for management to do what I just described.
Denny
Do you really think management would try to do this and **** off a group of 12000+ guys in favor of less than a 1000? No I don't because my example is a very extreme one, however, it is completely possible for management to do what I just described.
Denny
05-29-2011 | 08:17 PM
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From: Kickin’ Back
Denny
05-29-2011 | 08:17 PM
Da Hudge
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From: Poodle Whisperer
05-29-2011 | 08:26 PM
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From: 765-A
(Please. No North vs. South discussion.)
But, seriously. If you want, I can dig the book up and find a way to put it in your mailbox/v-file, or whatever it's called.
05-29-2011 | 08:27 PM
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From: Kickin’ Back
Denny
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