Carl Spackler

Um no. I'm the one that wants to dump ALPA over this because ALPA wants to do nothing about outsourcing except continue it. You're the one who wants to fix ALPA from within. Who has forgotten what...


Um no. "Legacy Carrier" is a media term. We are a major carrier, and major carriers still do most of the flying. So far.


But still you came to the majors.

Um no. Bigotry didn't get Delta pilots furloughed. Giving in to the Scope fear propagated by management and ALPA did that.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Every one of those choices are management's...not ours. We have no leverage via any job action to enact any of these desires because it involves Section 1. That, unfortunately, is the result of precedent set back in 1974.

We fought and struck over every inch of our contract Bar. You wouldn't know what that's like. I believe strongly in all unionized pilots having merger and fragmentation contract provisions. I believe most do.

You've been having White Russians for breakfast...haven't you.

Carl

Carl Spackler

DALPA is showing no signs whatsoever of doing anything to achieve that. Maybe that will change, but I don't know how you could make such a statement.

Carl

Pineapple Guy

OK, let me rephrase. First, you have to assume that transitioning from our current system to longevity based pay is a zero sum game. It's just a different way of allocating a fixed pot of cash. Or, if you want to assume we get massive pay increases, such that a 777A doesn't take a paycut, then that means his raise is much less than those junior to him. So either, way the math works out the same.

We have 34 airplanes (777 and 747) at the top of the pay scale. Out of 742 (according to APC). That means 4.5% of our pilots are at the top of the pay scale. Under a longevity system, that means your seniority number would have to be roughly in the top 4.5% (#559 out of 12,200) to equal that pay. Yet, we have guys with seniority number of 2200+ on the 777.

As for my thoughts overall on longevity pay, several things come to mind:

1) You're not producing any more revenue for DAL just because you've been here longer, so the economic case to be made is tougher. Longevity based pay is also how ALPA ends up with $70,000/yr secretaries, which you acknowledge is ridiculous, as do I.

2) By removing a significant incentive for moving to different aircraft, you have the effect of flattening the seniority on each aircraft, and thereby reducing your options from a quality of life perspective. It would be like we have 1-2 different categories and that is it. Whereas now, a pilot with a seniority of, for example, 2000, has the choice of:

a) Super senior on the M88
b) Senior on the M88
c) Average seniority on the 767
d) Not too senior on the 764
e) Junior but able to hold the 777

So this pilot has almost limitless choices to pick just the right mix of quality of life, trips, and pay. Eliminate the pay differential, and you basically only have domestic and international as a choice, and with DAL mixing categories even that gets blurred.

Meaning, when you first get hired, you can count on 5 years of reserve, followed by 5 years of moderate seniority as an F/O, followed by 5 years of good seniority as an F/O or reserve as a Captain. Then same once you make Captain. Under the current system, if willing to stay on a small aircraft, you can be very senior fairly quickly. That option disappears under longevity based pay. That's my primary problem with it.

Elvis90

Bigot is such a strong word with so many racial undertones...

---->Bigotry: stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

How about "dogmatic" to describe Carl?

---->Dogmatic: asserting opinions in a doctrinaire or arrogant manner; opinionated.

nwaf16dude

They are operating some jets (2, I think) that exceed our max weight limit for affiliates. Don't know the type.

Elvis90

I'll simply vote "No" if it fails to meet expectations, and I'd expect the majority of others to do the same. Some councils have put forward some pretty strong language regarding this. I think the DPA threat has DALPA concerned...just my opinion, everyone has one.

Two guys in my new hire class of 28 have left for SWA by the way. If Delta wants to attract and retain the best pilots, compensation will need to follow.

Scoop

JH,

Not sure that would solve the problem. I will explain trip parking as I see it ( I am no expert on this and am sure some kind soul will tactfully point out any errors). I think trip parking is total BS and should be stopped.

Pilot Hosebag has a line with the following trips on it:

Trip AA - 25 Hours credit
Trip BB - 25 Hours credit
Trip CC - 25 Hours credit

Hosebag has a 75 month and we will assume his max pick-up is 15 hours or a limit of 90 hours of credit.

Hosebag sees a 20 hour trip in Open time (Trip - FU) that would fit nicely in his schedule. He would like to pick it up via a white-slip. Alas, poor Hosebag is limited by his 15 hour pickup (due to contractual ALV limits) and his attempted white-slip is denied.

Hosebag, being quite resourceful, is not to be denied. Hosebag gives Trip AA to his buddy, lets call him Douche, via the Swap with Friends board. This is the important part and will come to play shortly - The Swap with friends board has no Max pickup or ALV limit.

Now Hosebag has a 50 hour month and successful picks up Trip - FU via a white slip.

Now Hosebag has a 70 hour month consisting of Trips BB, CC, and FU.

Now for the pièce de résistance - Douch gives Trip AA back to Hosebag via the Swap with Friends Board. Note- Although this contractually this exceeds his maximum credit of 90 hours (he now has a 95 hour month) and was previously prevented by the max pick-up limit as a straight White-slip, it is now successfully processed due to a loop-hole in the Swap with friends board has now gone through.

Now lets consider a few things. Did Hosebag do anything wrong? No, he simply used the contract to his advantage. Fine, although I think its wrong, I do not begrudge this to him, but lets close the loophole. It is quite simple and can be done one of either two ways:

1. Make Max pick-up applies to Swap with friends also.
2. Once you give up a Trip with the Swap with Friends board you can not take back the same trip. Make it a one way operation.

So back to JH's original post. Hosebag did not trade anything from the WS board. The trip he picked up via WS he has kept. It was a trip originally on his line that he "parked."

Scoop

dragon

Well said Carl.

I sincerely hope folks remember Freedom isn't Free!

Please take a moment today to remember the fallen and to honor the Nation and ideals they fell for.

boog123

There are quite a few bigger "loopholes" that are costing much more money to everyone that I would prefer we work on right now.