Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1014883)

When is the deadline for them to change their minds?

Carl

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1014990)

Does said pilot mean a 15% raise every year or just a 15% raise in total?

Originally Posted by 1234 (Post 1014991)

:cool:

He must have meant that he is expecting full restoration of our wages to C2K + cola on the date of signing and then 15% over 4 years.

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1014995)

I asked for clarification, just to be sure, and he said he doesn't think we would EVER see 2000 pay scales again.

I stopped asking questions after that statement.

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1014995)

I asked for clarification, just to be sure, and he said he doesn't think we would EVER see 2000 pay scales again.

I stopped asking questions after that statement.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1015000)

Well, can you blame him if he meant 15% over the life of the contract?

All he probably ever hears is what are you willing to give up to get 20%? So he settled on 15%. He's beaten down and his expectations have been tarnished thanks to ALPA national who is practically begging for him to give up jobs to their lowest paid members in exchange for nearly nothing.

BTW, a 15% increase yoy will in the end (not taking into account the time value of money which if we're dealing with the dollar it's anyones guess what it'll be worth) but 15% yoy vs 60% upfront and cola after that is a wash.

The 15% YOY would increase cost $450M/year on average (according to airlinefinancials.com) beginning with a $350M increase and ending with a $500M+ yearly increase.

The 60% up front would give us $1.4B initially and then there would a $70M-ish raise per year.

Sure we'd like it up front but I also don't want the sum of money becoming a C2000 style target to be retrieved in less than half a decade and any concessions made to get that pay not returned.

I'm open to 15% YOY.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1015000)

Well, can you blame him if he meant 15% over the life of the contract?

All he probably ever hears is what are you willing to give up to get 20%?

So he settled on 15% and probably 2% yoy. He's beaten down and his expectations have been tarnished thanks to ALPA national who is practically demanding for him to give up good jobs to their lowest paid members of the union in exchange for nearly nothing.

Not to mention that Richard Trumka has volunteered us all to help Van Jones' new anti-tea party party. ? We'll save that for another day.

BTW, a 15% increase yoy will in the end (not taking into account the time value of money which if we're dealing with the dollar it's anyones guess what it'll be worth) but 15% yoy vs 60% upfront and cola after that is a wash.

The 15% YOY would increase cost $450M/year on average (according to airlinefinancials.com) beginning with a $350M increase and ending with a $500M+ yearly increase.

The 60% up front would give us $1.4B initially and then there would a $70M-ish raise per year.

Sure we'd like it up front but I also don't want the sum of money becoming a C2000 style target to be retrieved in less than half a decade and any concessions made to get that pay not returned.

I'm open to 15% YOY.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1015000)

Not to mention that Richard Trumka has volunteered us all to help Van Jones' new anti-tea party party. ? We'll save that for another day.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1015004)

Just remember this: By this year's end, AirTran pilots will be making more than Delta 744/777 Captains, and will be until AT LEAST 2013. And they'll be doing so with the industry's best Scope. Nuff said.

Carl

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1015002)

FTB, he wasn't talking YOY. He specifically said 15%-20% raise over a 4 year contract. Basically around 3%-5% YOY.
Tried clarifying it with him, and this is fact what he meant.

I actually don't like talking about what we should be negotiating for in the next contract on these boards because management types could use it as a reference, but I don't see a 5% raise every year being taken as anything less than a joke. (All other contract variables being equal)

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1015004)

Just remember this: By this year's end, AirTran pilots will be making more than Delta 744/777 Captains, and will be until AT LEAST 2013. And they'll be doing so with the industry's best Scope. Nuff said.

Carl