Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-03-2011, 10:37 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I have a lot of friends at SWA. Some of that was embellished just a bit. Like the averaging over 18 days off. The pilots making 230K a year are working 18 days a month. The average 18 days off is on the basic original lines and counts months with vacation. To earn 230 K you have to fly extra time. The same happens at Delta. We have had in the last year pilots break 50K in one month. There will be a number of pilots at Delta who break 300 K this year. I flew with 7ER copilot who made 200K last year. If I simply flew my basic line at Delta and counted in vacation and all the DH deviations I probably average working under 10 days a month unless I choose to pick up overtime.
I am ahead of my peers at SW in compensation this year and have worked less. I have however had some very lucky breaks with trip assignments and dropped trips. Its always nice to get triple pay.
I am ahead of my peers at SW in compensation this year and have worked less. I have however had some very lucky breaks with trip assignments and dropped trips. Its always nice to get triple pay.
You're mentioning a couple pilots out of a 12000+ pilot group and comparing that to an AVERAGE of another carrier that used to be the bottom feeder?
What are they feeding you alpaoids?
07-03-2011, 10:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by slowplay
followed by...
So a SWAPA publication to a group they are merging with is the "burning bush" and an ALPA publication needs to be "watched closely." Got it.
Nice double standard...
So a SWAPA publication to a group they are merging with is the "burning bush" and an ALPA publication needs to be "watched closely." Got it.
Nice double standard...
Unfortunately ALPA is running a little behind on the verification. Too much spin in Herndon.
07-03-2011, 10:43 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Hey New, watching Thomas Jefferson bio from Ken Burns. Rented it.
07-03-2011, 10:43 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by dragon
Using Reagan's adage - trust but verify.
Unfortunately ALPA is running a little behind on the verification. Too much spin in Herndon.
Unfortunately ALPA is running a little behind on the verification. Too much spin in Herndon.
07-03-2011, 10:55 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by FedElta
Ok, according to the latest Alpa rag, Airtran stock gained 109.8% from May 2010 until May 2011. During that same period DAL stock declined 25.8%.
Hey ACL, what happened to your $20+ prediction for our merger to end all mergers ?
Regards......
Hey ACL, what happened to your $20+ prediction for our merger to end all mergers ?
Regards......
Math was never my strong point, however:
In May 2010 AAI stock was at $ 5.64. In May 2011 the stock was at 7.43.
Where does 109.8 % come from ? Was it the Tim Martin journalist that wrote the story ?
07-03-2011, 11:57 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Carl, The info you have is from a welcome to SW package for the Airtran pilots. Its intent was to show the incredibly deal they are getting and why they should agree to what SW wants in the SLI. If you think Swapa is not above a bit of spin then we will disagree on that point. Most of the info is basically accurate however just glancing at the numbers suggests again some spin! 1260 trips is the average per pilot? Not likely since you really can't fly more then that without bumping up against FAR's. Under their system 1260 trips equates to 1090 hours. I do understand that some legs go under block and you can fly more but I simply don't think that its the average.
In the end the total block hour costs between SWA and Delta will be used by both sides in the negotiations. There is nothing secret there. Its not however a number that will show SW way above us.
If we want a number to justify the biggest raises possible focusing on the SW contract would simply not be wise. A much better position to take would be revenue generation per pilot. At Delta we generate significantly more revenue per pilot then at SW. Those numbers are also easy to find.
In the end the total block hour costs between SWA and Delta will be used by both sides in the negotiations. There is nothing secret there. Its not however a number that will show SW way above us.
If we want a number to justify the biggest raises possible focusing on the SW contract would simply not be wise. A much better position to take would be revenue generation per pilot. At Delta we generate significantly more revenue per pilot then at SW. Those numbers are also easy to find.
07-03-2011, 12:26 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Originally Posted by dragon
FERD, you're right in that you can't PS on SkyWest or ASA, but you're wrong about the front end deviation.
You can book your own front end PS through travelnet under company business. If you are on your way over an ocean and a need BE seat, you have to book yourself in coach and then call the CPSC.
Hope it helps.
You can book your own front end PS through travelnet under company business. If you are on your way over an ocean and a need BE seat, you have to book yourself in coach and then call the CPSC.
Hope it helps.
Ferd
07-03-2011, 12:29 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by slowplay
followed by...
So a SWAPA publication to a group they are merging with is the "burning bush" and an ALPA publication needs to be "watched closely." Got it.
Nice double standard...
So a SWAPA publication to a group they are merging with is the "burning bush" and an ALPA publication needs to be "watched closely." Got it.
Nice double standard...
07-03-2011, 12:33 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by sailingfun
If we want a number to justify the biggest raises possible...
Anybody know if Ed Bastian likes sailing?
07-03-2011, 12:49 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
ALPA vs DPA
ALPA
1) Represents Delta, regionals and other competitors
2) 1.95% dues
3) President/Chairman is chosen by a small group
4) Refuses to publish MEC Flight Pay Loss data for 2010
5) Designated (PWA 24.J.3.) Reps are paid by the company
6) Reps are not required to fly specific amounts
7) President compensated $498K in 2010
8) President has a $6,500/month housing allowance
9) President has a $1,300/month plus fuel car allowance
10) Designated Reps earn 92 hr guarantee plus $1000 over-ride plus green slips/paid what they could hold, not bid
11) Reps may drop trips for ALPA work over holidays
12) $1.67M in expenses in 2010 for 12 DALPA meetings
13) $329/night each for 80 rooms (Westin Times Square NYC)
14) Spent $124,500 on meeting food/drink for 5 days in NYC
15) Meetings held in resort destinations (FLL, MCO, LAS)
16) Dues dollars used to buy alcohol at meetings
17) Dues directly subsidize regional competition
18) Political voice abused - Pushed AGE 65 majority opposed
19) Attorneys shared by competition
20) Pays DFR lawsuit settlements to competition
21) Regionals have right to comment on DAL scope proposals
22) Leaders move on to management jobs
23) Survey results kept secret
24) Pilot negotiators backed by shared/conflicted attorneys
25) Base reps - varied demographics and base size
26) Oil portrait of all ALPA Presidents required by Nat’l policy
DPA
1) Represents Delta Pilots exclusively
2) 1% dues goal
3) President/Reps are elected by membership
4) Open finances accessible by all members
5) Reps are paid out of member dues and earned flying
6) Reps fly a half line minimum (stays tuned to line needs)
7) Leader/Reps compensation modeled after SWAPA
8) Housing allowances modeled after SWAPA
9) Transportation allowances modeled after SWAPA
10) Reps pay modeled after SWAPA, at rate actually bid for, ensuring greater empathy for the block represented
11) No regular association business/trip drops on holidays
12) Majority of routine work done over teleconference
13) Hotels like crew layovers/Focused on wise use of dues
14) Focused on wise use of member dues
15) Meetings held in crew base locations only
16) Reps purchase own alcohol at meetings
17) Dues used exclusively for benefit of Delta pilots
18) Influence used solely to respect Delta pilot mandates
19) Exclusively focused attorneys - no conflicts of interest
20) Association not responsible for representing others
21) No other airline has a say in Delta contract proposals
22) Five year non-compete clause
23) Survey results posted
24) Professional negotiators backed by pilots
25) Seniority Block reps - uniform size/similar demographics
26) Digital photograph of President more than sufficient
ALPA
1) Represents Delta, regionals and other competitors
2) 1.95% dues
3) President/Chairman is chosen by a small group
4) Refuses to publish MEC Flight Pay Loss data for 2010
5) Designated (PWA 24.J.3.) Reps are paid by the company
6) Reps are not required to fly specific amounts
7) President compensated $498K in 2010
8) President has a $6,500/month housing allowance
9) President has a $1,300/month plus fuel car allowance
10) Designated Reps earn 92 hr guarantee plus $1000 over-ride plus green slips/paid what they could hold, not bid
11) Reps may drop trips for ALPA work over holidays
12) $1.67M in expenses in 2010 for 12 DALPA meetings
13) $329/night each for 80 rooms (Westin Times Square NYC)
14) Spent $124,500 on meeting food/drink for 5 days in NYC
15) Meetings held in resort destinations (FLL, MCO, LAS)
16) Dues dollars used to buy alcohol at meetings
17) Dues directly subsidize regional competition
18) Political voice abused - Pushed AGE 65 majority opposed
19) Attorneys shared by competition
20) Pays DFR lawsuit settlements to competition
21) Regionals have right to comment on DAL scope proposals
22) Leaders move on to management jobs
23) Survey results kept secret
24) Pilot negotiators backed by shared/conflicted attorneys
25) Base reps - varied demographics and base size
26) Oil portrait of all ALPA Presidents required by Nat’l policy
DPA
1) Represents Delta Pilots exclusively
2) 1% dues goal
3) President/Reps are elected by membership
4) Open finances accessible by all members
5) Reps are paid out of member dues and earned flying
6) Reps fly a half line minimum (stays tuned to line needs)
7) Leader/Reps compensation modeled after SWAPA
8) Housing allowances modeled after SWAPA
9) Transportation allowances modeled after SWAPA
10) Reps pay modeled after SWAPA, at rate actually bid for, ensuring greater empathy for the block represented
11) No regular association business/trip drops on holidays
12) Majority of routine work done over teleconference
13) Hotels like crew layovers/Focused on wise use of dues
14) Focused on wise use of member dues
15) Meetings held in crew base locations only
16) Reps purchase own alcohol at meetings
17) Dues used exclusively for benefit of Delta pilots
18) Influence used solely to respect Delta pilot mandates
19) Exclusively focused attorneys - no conflicts of interest
20) Association not responsible for representing others
21) No other airline has a say in Delta contract proposals
22) Five year non-compete clause
23) Survey results posted
24) Professional negotiators backed by pilots
25) Seniority Block reps - uniform size/similar demographics
26) Digital photograph of President more than sufficient
I haven't read a single post past yours so I'm sure this is already covered, but...
Your comparison isn't really a fair comparison as you listed everything wrong with ALPA (IYO) and everything right with DPA (IYO). Why not throw some benefits of ALPA and draw backs to DPA?
I'm no ALPA cheerleader but you gotta keep it "Fair and Unbalanced".
Cheers
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