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Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg
(Post 1018442)
I just want an opener from DALPA that reflects what we deserve. I haven't been hearing flattering numbers lately. If the Airtran guys can get SWA wages, I think we deserve them too. The best way to steer DALPA in the right direction is to give them something to think about, ie the DPA. We need to get their attention, and sending in the card means you'd like a vote, not that you're ready to throw DALPA away. How has SWAPA done for their pilots? Our dues numbers are huge, and if DALPA doesn't want to respect what we want, then we should seek other alternatives. I really hope the DALPA opener is positive and reflective of our wants. I won't let them manage my expectations. I will fill out that survey and I have expectations of my own, as should we all.
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Originally Posted by 1234
(Post 1018444)
Actually, I believe that what they asked for was complete restoration, including adjustments for inflation, back to 1992 levels.
No, I don't think we should ask for less than that, however, I don't think that we will see rates like that on this contract. It would be great if I was wrong. |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1018445)
I agree. People should see what it would take to get W2 parity and it will be a much higher number.
The reason my % is not enough is because it's a verifiable minimum per APC's pay tables, but it does not take into account even a simple issue - min guarantee between us and them and the affect parity there would have on our ALV and average W2s. The thing is if we increase the min guarantee from 70 to 78 do we end up furloughing? |
It would be nice if both sides presented a reasonable wish-list, but I'm afraid that unrealistic openers have become so ingrained in the collective bargaining process that it is now foolhardy to start out with a moderate position. The other side will simply not believe that you haven't left yourself plenty of negotiating room, and the process may be lengthened instead of shortened. :(
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Originally Posted by 1234
(Post 1018444)
Actually, I believe that what they asked for was complete restoration, including adjustments for inflation, back to 1992 levels.
No, I don't think we should ask for less than that, however, I don't think that we will see rates like that on this contract. It would be great if I was wrong. |
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 1018438)
I don't believe I insult folks with an opinion different than mine. I insult folks that make stuff up. I insult folks that revise history dishonestly. I insult folks that I perceive lack integrity in their debate, while they call into question the integrity of people and processes that I know. They get the insults.
I'll take your words into consideration, as you've been one of the more balanced guys on this board. A little introspection is never a bad thing. Thanks. The important part of this forum, given its anonymous nature versus our other forum, is the safety with which a difference of opinion may be heard and tolerated and reason left free to combat it. No matter what you believe about the direction and governance of ourselves, our discussions are richer with a Slow and a Carl than they could ever be without either. So I am all for facts, figures, cheerleaders, insults, innuendos, baseless charges and thread drifts because in the end, we're all the smarter for it. http://loscuatroojos.com/wp-content/...mpson_beer.jpg |
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
(Post 1018448)
Do we even need to increase the min guarantee? It sounds to me like Delta MD-88/90 pilots and SWA 737 pilots are flying a comparable number of block hours. But their W-2's are between 50 and 60% higher than ours.
DAMN DAMN! http://static.moviefanatic.com/image...ks_237x250.jpg |
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
(Post 1018451)
I went back and looked. You are correct. They were asking to restore their buying power back to 1992 levels. Now, I don't know if that restores their buying power back to pre-9/11 pay cut levels... so it may not be a complete restoration (depends on whether their buying power was higher in 1992 or in 2001... I'm guessing it was higher in 2001 but I don't know that for a fact.)
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Originally Posted by contrails
(Post 1018398)
Hypothetical situation . . . you're riding in the back of an MD88. The flight is late, and the cabin is stifling hot. The captain makes the welcome PA in the cabin stating he's flown fighters for [number greater than 20] years and thus likes to spend a lot of time upside down in airplanes, and on this flight plans on doing a roll after takeoff . . . do you laugh?
:o |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1018447)
Are you saying, you want these higher rates but you just don't think people should ask for them in public?
No, that is not what I am saying. There is a lot of talk on here saying that ALPA sucks because they are not making public statements right now saying that we should get these higher rates. What I am saying is that I really don't care right now that ALPA isn't saying anything about our contract opener and instead giving the pilots some background information to understand business documents and terms so that hopefully, when the time comes, we don't have 52% of the pilots vote for a POS contract. It is relatively clear that they are doing their research and getting prepared for contract negotiations which will not start until next year. As we get closer, I will expect more info to come out as to the union position the closer we get to openers. |
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