Short sightedness, bankruptcy, and outsourcing.

 

But if its relative seniority, you won't lose bidding power and there will be more opportunities going forward....

Isn't that what DAL argued in the NWA/DAL SLI?

I'm a way low man on the totem pole so anyone coming in ahead of me will have a potential impact on my future, but I do agree that a relative percentage SLI with adjustments for fleet makeup/percentage wide to narrow would absolutely be fair.

 

Ironically, Southwest.

And it's copy cats.

Those wife beaters from Dallas!

Add in fuel prices and the morons once allowed to run cash cows like legacy airlines drove us all into mountains prior to jumping out with their golden or silver parachutes.

Add the pilots in command of the pilots in command, failed to understand and prevent devastating outsourcing and they too bailed to safety and leaving those who believe in their own unions to deal with the mess while others wise they'd been given that same parachute.

 

I agree, the LUV airline plays NO part in what I expect out of the next PWA.


See ftb's payrate graphs above..... and that's just one aspect of what amounts to many, many things...

 

I hope something important (and good) happens soon. This thread is definitely stuck in a rut. I don't know what is worse - speculating on hypothetical merger SLIs or comparing our contract to SWA for 1000+ posts.

For all the guys who think SWA is that great just remember - Pilots were quiting SWA to go to DAL, UAL, and AMR 10 years ago. Their contract did not really get any better - almost every other contract went south. Its amazing that basically the same contract that guys were quiting over is now the envy of the industry.

I guess I picked the wrong decade to quit sniffing glue.

Scoop

I am not saying that we shouldn't shoot for SWA rates, that is a given, but lets not forget the other important things: Babe pictures, Scope, badmouthing management, ALPA, DPA, etc.

 

I'm concerned about this too. But shouldn't the MEC prevent a contract with scope givebacks from even reaching MEMRAT? They might have to prevent us from hurting ourselves. Hopefully it's becoming more and more obvious that RJs are NOT good for Delta nor the Delta pilots. The question is whether the MEC's point of view on this issue has changed enough that scope goes near the top of their list.

 

The NWA/DAL SLI was a bit different than a DAL/JBU SLI. You had two like airlines, whereas with JBU that would be an airline that was started in the late 90s.

Logic would have it that considering they didnt exist, no 1998 person with a hire date that is on our list would have a JBU pilot in front of them. Relativity would be fine below that point.

I think the same argument holds for WN/FL... no WN pilot hired before the type when FL was started should have a single FL pilot in front of them.


DAL/HAL I believe Bloch would handle like the recent Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan list. The 767 CA slots would be integrated stovepipe method with us, 767 FO, then 717 CA integrated in the DC-9 stove pipe and 717 FO the same.

 

"Air France splits order between Airbus and Boeing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 7, 2011

Joint venture partner Air France-KLM will split an order for about 100 widebody planes between Airbus and the Boeing Co., the company said.

The decision was announced Wednesday by Chief Executive Officer Pierre Henri Gourgeon in a closed-door hearing at the French national assembly’s commission for sustainable development.

Air France had previously said the order would probably be split, however, more than 180 of 577 French deputies signed a petition pressing Air France to favor French manufacturer Airbus, according to Bloomberg.

Air France operates a fleet of A320s on routes within France and to some European countries, but relies heavily on the Boeing 777 on long-haul flights, the report said.

Airbus and Boeing are each in the process of manufacturing newer long-haul jumbo jets. Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner is scheduled to begin commercial flights soon, while Airbus’s A350 will begin service in 2013, the article said.

Air France is not the first airline to purchase both planes."



Somehow I see no prayer of us ordering a bunch of widebodies like this. Is AF doing something we are not, or are they just more in need of fleet renewal?

 

thats some thing I mentioned to our scope guy RD a year ago and he said not to worry....


Cheers
George

 

This is exactly why scope is important for everybody except for #1.

Without a strategy of growth and a union embracing even the interests of future hires the career outlook for everyone on the list takes a hit.

If you retire 1000 out of 12000 you're doing pretty good
If you retire 1000 out of 5000 not so good anymore for QOL and pay.

Either we are a labor union interested in getting everybody on board and making things better for all, or we just do out own thing, protect our guys and let the others fend for themselves...

Unfortunately currently we pick and chose select principles while ignoring others to our own financial and career detriment.

The argument I always got through the ranks of the reps. when asking about Alaska, Hawaiian et al was "you should be happy to have a job, they are furloughing pilots". Now that many of those cited airlines are recalling and hiring. What does that mean for the former argument?

Let's face it: our seniority based system is a giant pyramid scheme. Unless there is a drive to keep it growing the base is stagnates and fails top live up to expectations while the guy at the very tip doesn't notice a thing.

I'm not bitter, but I think there are some philosophical holes the size of the moon in our organization that cannot be resolved by maintaining the established structure, direction and ideals.

Cheers
George