Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-07-2011 | 09:52 AM
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From: Space Shuttle PIC
Yes, LUV for our domestic rates, and our JV partners for our INTL rates. AF and KLM should do nicely.
07-07-2011 | 10:17 AM
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From: Light Chop
The more I think about it, I know who to blame.
Really.
Boeing of the 80s, 90s and 2000s is not the Boeing of the 50s, 60s and 70s.
In the 50s Boeing gave us the B47, B52 and then the Dash 80/707. In 1960 they gave us the 727 and in the late 60s here comes the 737 and 747. The 70s they were designing the 757/767.
In the 80s, cruise control. 90s, modify the 737 but make sure it meets whatever SWA demands are met, and upgrade the 767 into the 777 and 764. 2000s, unethical conduct, industrial espionage, subsidy disputes, move to Chicago and try the 787 and so far fail miserably... oh and BIOFUELS!
Had they made an RJ we'd had them.
Had they not tried to pawn off the 735 as a great 100 seater and instead built a real 100 seater of quality, we'd been a lot better off.
Had they had their act together Airbus would've had to have theirs together, and probably does, but we wouldn't be looking for used airplanes like we do.
I blame Boeing. and I blame McDonnell Douglas, for not doing a better job.
It's an easy group to blame, they've ruined a lot of great things.
Really.
Boeing of the 80s, 90s and 2000s is not the Boeing of the 50s, 60s and 70s.
In the 50s Boeing gave us the B47, B52 and then the Dash 80/707. In 1960 they gave us the 727 and in the late 60s here comes the 737 and 747. The 70s they were designing the 757/767.
In the 80s, cruise control. 90s, modify the 737 but make sure it meets whatever SWA demands are met, and upgrade the 767 into the 777 and 764. 2000s, unethical conduct, industrial espionage, subsidy disputes, move to Chicago and try the 787 and so far fail miserably... oh and BIOFUELS!
Had they made an RJ we'd had them.
Had they not tried to pawn off the 735 as a great 100 seater and instead built a real 100 seater of quality, we'd been a lot better off.
Had they had their act together Airbus would've had to have theirs together, and probably does, but we wouldn't be looking for used airplanes like we do.
I blame Boeing. and I blame McDonnell Douglas, for not doing a better job.
It's an easy group to blame, they've ruined a lot of great things.
07-07-2011 | 10:30 AM
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From: 7ERB
PLEASE, No MORE!!! Ill never move up this freakin LIST!!
THey should have a 50 year fence on their equipment and base, then they can stovepipe over to Delta. In my opinion, Jetblue was a crapshoot back in 2000. Most of the guys who went there, werent getting calls from the majors.
I agree. No more merging, Lets just buy aircraft and compete.
This one is completely BS. I hope this scenario does not happen!
George, I hope you are right.
TEN
THey should have a 50 year fence on their equipment and base, then they can stovepipe over to Delta. In my opinion, Jetblue was a crapshoot back in 2000. Most of the guys who went there, werent getting calls from the majors.
You could still do relative seniority, it's what many of us think should happen with SWA and AAI. Relative seniority after AAI's start date. In this case, JB didn't start till 1999.
It'd be a mess if you're post 1999 hire at DAL and NWA
Let's go with not merging again.
It'd be a mess if you're post 1999 hire at DAL and NWA
Let's go with not merging again.
TEN
07-07-2011 | 10:31 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
I should have posted the average pilot is credited 1100 for pay purposes. Much like SW pilots at Delta make extra pay in a variety of ways.
A pilot flies 80 hours credit a month basic flying lets say without really pushing to pick up extra. Flies the same in a vacation month as a majority seem to do. Now he is around 1060 for the year. Picks up 10 to 12 hours more for training. Gets a couple trips with 20 hours extra in reroute pay and he is past 1100 credit hours without a single GS. Add in two GS's a quarter paying say 30 pay only hours each and you now have a pilot well beyond 1300 credit hours for the year. Ask Carl what some of his peers on the 747 have flown so far this year. As of their 15 July check coming up some will be over a 1000 already for this tax year. Other fly a lot less. Some pilots fly a lot less but the 2010 average was actually over 1100 total pay hours. If your going to use what SW averages per year then you need to use what Delta pilots average per year.
If you going into negotiations with the company and you try and throw bull**** numbers out there your going to get your a.. handed to you. The same thing applies for dealing with arbitrators.
The company will know to the minute what the average Delta pilot is crediting. They will know to the dime our pilot costs are compared to SW on a per block hour basis. There wont be any dispute on all the numbers. Its all available to both sides.
A pilot flies 80 hours credit a month basic flying lets say without really pushing to pick up extra. Flies the same in a vacation month as a majority seem to do. Now he is around 1060 for the year. Picks up 10 to 12 hours more for training. Gets a couple trips with 20 hours extra in reroute pay and he is past 1100 credit hours without a single GS. Add in two GS's a quarter paying say 30 pay only hours each and you now have a pilot well beyond 1300 credit hours for the year. Ask Carl what some of his peers on the 747 have flown so far this year. As of their 15 July check coming up some will be over a 1000 already for this tax year. Other fly a lot less. Some pilots fly a lot less but the 2010 average was actually over 1100 total pay hours. If your going to use what SW averages per year then you need to use what Delta pilots average per year.
If you going into negotiations with the company and you try and throw bull**** numbers out there your going to get your a.. handed to you. The same thing applies for dealing with arbitrators.
The company will know to the minute what the average Delta pilot is crediting. They will know to the dime our pilot costs are compared to SW on a per block hour basis. There wont be any dispute on all the numbers. Its all available to both sides.
Carl
07-07-2011 | 10:33 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
07-07-2011 | 10:36 AM
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From: 7ERB
That would be an extremely small portion of my peers on the 747. Nobody I know has gotten even one green slip since the merger. I've never gotten one and I'm a mid seniority guy. A small handfull of those guys does not raise the average 744A guys' pay very much. At SWA, they average 230K per year, working an average of 12 days per month, with an iron clad scope. That's not BS. I don't know why you are trying to insinuate otherwise.
Carl
Carl
We are worth much more than we think, especially with this "lurking" pilot shortage
TEN
07-07-2011 | 10:36 AM
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From: Light Chop
That would be an extremely small portion of my peers on the 747. Nobody I know has gotten even one green slip since the merger. I've never gotten one and I'm a mid seniority guy. A small handfull of those guys does not raise the average 744A guys' pay very much. At SWA, they average 230K per year, working an average of 12 days per month, with an iron clad scope. That's not BS. I don't know why you are trying to insinuate otherwise.
Carl
Carl
07-07-2011 | 10:39 AM
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From: Light Chop
I dont even know why we are salivating over SWA pay. We need to aim much higher. This airline environment we are in is "ripe" for making tons of $$$$. If our managers' aren't capable of taking advantage of this arena, they should be fired. Pilot pay/labor has never effected revenue creation or company financials, contrary to what MNGMT 101 sells.
We are worth much more than we think, especially with this "lurking" pilot shortage
TEN
We are worth much more than we think, especially with this "lurking" pilot shortage
TEN
It helps bring out the capitulation crowd.
Same crowd hates if we mention SWA, except those who honestly believe SWA pay is too low. Which is a good thing.
07-07-2011 | 10:44 AM
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From: 7ERB
Hopefully we value our careers and our sacrifices a little more, I think this company can/will kick the competitors A$$ and be very dominate even with our pilots making what they should make...Hopefully much more than SWA.
TEN
07-07-2011 | 10:49 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Are you saying Carl is worth twice as much as me? 
Just trying to latch on to a simple idea. Sure it's not as big of a % increase for Carl though, it takes his rates from $217 to $276 but mine jumps from $94 to $153.
I say Carl, if he were here, I guess I'm buying.
The thing now about voting yes when you should've voted no and never fessing up to it, with our scope language issues we could easily be voting for furloughs when you vote yes.
Just trying to latch on to a simple idea. Sure it's not as big of a % increase for Carl though, it takes his rates from $217 to $276 but mine jumps from $94 to $153.
I say Carl, if he were here, I guess I'm buying.
The thing now about voting yes when you should've voted no and never fessing up to it, with our scope language issues we could easily be voting for furloughs when you vote yes.
The company and ALPA have a huge hill to climb this time in convincing any portion of our seniority list that a scope sale is necessary.
Carl
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