Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-08-2011 | 07:01 AM
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From: 7ERB
Just like when SWAs pay is low in the past, mngmt wants us to compare our contract to match our pay to their pay.
Now that SWA pay is higher than ours, mngmt implies that we can not match their pay because they are a non-comparable entity
TEN
07-08-2011 | 07:19 AM
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Carl, I acknowledge - that was a bad use of words. What I meant to say was one was at the helm right up until the time DAL entered bankruptcy; then a different MEC Chairman was elected. How those two approached the job is a function of the circumstances each found themselves in.
The entire Delta pilot group had rose colored glasses on right up until the time bankruptcy was declared. The pension was heading down the toilet for several years while thousands left yet nothing was done. We kept getting contractually negotiated pay raises, while the corporation was losing billions. Disabled pilots have their disability payments for life, and even got their benefit plussed up when the pension terminated.
Bankruptcy was a bucket of ice water thrown in our faces, and in my opinion, the true wake up call. The new MEC and MEC Admin made the most of it, despite the horrible circumstances. Labor definitely loses, and loses big in every bankruptcy, but to somehow lay the blame on where we are at the feet of the union, is also to deny that 9/11 is the real reason.
The entire Delta pilot group had rose colored glasses on right up until the time bankruptcy was declared. The pension was heading down the toilet for several years while thousands left yet nothing was done. We kept getting contractually negotiated pay raises, while the corporation was losing billions. Disabled pilots have their disability payments for life, and even got their benefit plussed up when the pension terminated.
Bankruptcy was a bucket of ice water thrown in our faces, and in my opinion, the true wake up call. The new MEC and MEC Admin made the most of it, despite the horrible circumstances. Labor definitely loses, and loses big in every bankruptcy, but to somehow lay the blame on where we are at the feet of the union, is also to deny that 9/11 is the real reason.
The Pension law forbids changes to earned and accrued pensions. Even the lump sum option could not be taken away under the law until the pension plan reached a defined critical funding level. There was nothing the company or union could do about the pension problem outside of chapter 11. Even freezing the pension which eventually was done would not save it.
The other part of your statement is correct. We signed the contract just as the largest drop in yields ever seen occurred. Shortly after that 911 happened. Great time to non rev but not much else. The company and union should have worked together to start conserving cash. It might have saved some furloughs also. The problem was that Leo Mullins was still in charge and did not know how to lead people and he was afraid of Dalpa.
He saw his dream merger go down the tubes because of Dalpa and unions. When Delta/CAL failed he made his famous quote. "This thing fell apart because of labor". He could not grasp that. He had never worked in a labor intensive industry before Delta.
Then there was the 800LB gorilla in the room. His other famous quote "A contract is a contract". Had he granted that 5 percent mid contract raise and given back the week of vacation Delta might be a very different airline today. Instead you had a pilot group chanting A Contract is A Contract and a CEO afraid to even ask for anything. DALPA leadership would have been tared and feather by the pilot group had they suggested concessions to conserve cash and Leo was afraid of a near riot by the pilots if he pushed for it after his stupid choices.
That left the Dalpa and the Company like two kids at a Junior High Dance looking at each other across the floor. The both wanted to dance and knew they should be dancing together but had no idea how to get it started. As a result contract 01 ran for all but a few months of its full duration.
With cash critical and the airline now almost two late to even file Chapter 11 without liquidation things were beyond critical and major changes happened. New management both at Dalpa and the Company. I love this forum where guys not even hired then choose to go to work for this company years later and now can tell those of us who were there everything we did wrong and how screwed up Dalpa was.
The facts are that new Dalpa leadership pulled this airline through the Chapter 11 process in better shape both as a airline and as a pilot contract then anyone else. Dalpa produced substantial and different revenue streams for the pilots including the MPP, Note, Claim and merger money. Money often forgotten in the screams about pay rates. They saved a substantial portion of the retirement and produced a future system with a much fairer result for all pilots junior and senior.
Perhaps even more important a union that was able to work with the company beat off a hostile takeover that everyone else including wallstreet thought was a shoe in. Parker was so arrogant and sure he had the deal he did not even try and sugar coat it to anyone. He was asked about Delta employess he said thousands would be furloughed ASAP. Over 150 aircraft would be parked including every MD88. He told Boeing one of the seats on the creditors committee he would give Boeing no preference on aircraft orders. The same with General Electric on engines. Lee Moak widely hated here did simply amazing work in convincing the creditors committee to forgo a offer that would have put a lot of cash in their pockets asap and wait for a recovering Delta to pay them back. The vote by the committee to stay with Delta was a shock to everyone especially Parker. He was sure the deal was done.
Its great the new guys can tell us everything we did wrong after 911. They did not however live through it and despite that fact that according to many new pilots we failed completely they have eagerly sought work here. Very confusing to me!
07-08-2011 | 07:35 AM
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The Pension law forbids changes to earned and accrued pensions. Even the lump sum option could not be taken away under the law until the pension plan reached a defined critical funding level. There was nothing the company or union could do about the pension problem outside of chapter 11. Even freezing the pension which eventually was done would not save it.
The other part of your statement is correct. We signed the contract just as the largest drop in yields ever seen occurred. Shortly after that 911 happened. Great time to non rev but not much else. The company and union should have worked together to start conserving cash. It might have saved some furloughs also. The problem was that Leo Mullins was still in charge and did not know how to lead people and he was afraid of Dalpa.
He saw his dream merger go down the tubes because of Dalpa and unions. When Delta/CAL failed he made his famous quote. "This thing fell apart because of labor". He could not grasp that. He had never worked in a labor intensive industry before Delta.
Then there was the 800LB gorilla in the room. His other famous quote "A contract is a contract". Had he granted that 5 percent mid contract raise and given back the week of vacation Delta might be a very different airline today. Instead you had a pilot group chanting A Contract is A Contract and a CEO afraid to even ask for anything. DALPA leadership would have been tared and feather by the pilot group had they suggested concessions to conserve cash and Leo was afraid of a near riot by the pilots if he pushed for it after his stupid choices.
That left the Dalpa and the Company like two kids at a Junior High Dance looking at each other across the floor. The both wanted to dance and knew they should be dancing together but had no idea how to get it started. As a result contract 01 ran for all but a few months of its full duration.
With cash critical and the airline now almost two late to even file Chapter 11 without liquidation things were beyond critical and major changes happened. New management both at Dalpa and the Company. I love this forum where guys not even hired then choose to go to work for this company years later and now can tell those of us who were there everything we did wrong and how screwed up Dalpa was.
The facts are that new Dalpa leadership pulled this airline through the Chapter 11 process in better shape both as a airline and as a pilot contract then anyone else. Dalpa produced substantial and different revenue streams for the pilots including the MPP, Note, Claim and merger money. Money often forgotten in the screams about pay rates. They saved a substantial portion of the retirement and produced a future system with a much fairer result for all pilots junior and senior.
Perhaps even more important a union that was able to work with the company beat off a hostile takeover that everyone else including wallstreet thought was a shoe in. Parker was so arrogant and sure he had the deal he did not even try and sugar coat it to anyone. He was asked about Delta employess he said thousands would be furloughed ASAP. Over 150 aircraft would be parked including every MD88. He told Boeing one of the seats on the creditors committee he would give Boeing no preference on aircraft orders. The same with General Electric on engines. Lee Moak widely hated here did simply amazing work in convincing the creditors committee to forgo a offer that would have put a lot of cash in their pockets asap and wait for a recovering Delta to pay them back. The vote by the committee to stay with Delta was a shock to everyone especially Parker. He was sure the deal was done.
Its great the new guys can tell us everything we did wrong after 911. They did not however live through it and despite that fact that according to many new pilots we failed completely they have eagerly sought work here. Very confusing to me!
The other part of your statement is correct. We signed the contract just as the largest drop in yields ever seen occurred. Shortly after that 911 happened. Great time to non rev but not much else. The company and union should have worked together to start conserving cash. It might have saved some furloughs also. The problem was that Leo Mullins was still in charge and did not know how to lead people and he was afraid of Dalpa.
He saw his dream merger go down the tubes because of Dalpa and unions. When Delta/CAL failed he made his famous quote. "This thing fell apart because of labor". He could not grasp that. He had never worked in a labor intensive industry before Delta.
Then there was the 800LB gorilla in the room. His other famous quote "A contract is a contract". Had he granted that 5 percent mid contract raise and given back the week of vacation Delta might be a very different airline today. Instead you had a pilot group chanting A Contract is A Contract and a CEO afraid to even ask for anything. DALPA leadership would have been tared and feather by the pilot group had they suggested concessions to conserve cash and Leo was afraid of a near riot by the pilots if he pushed for it after his stupid choices.
That left the Dalpa and the Company like two kids at a Junior High Dance looking at each other across the floor. The both wanted to dance and knew they should be dancing together but had no idea how to get it started. As a result contract 01 ran for all but a few months of its full duration.
With cash critical and the airline now almost two late to even file Chapter 11 without liquidation things were beyond critical and major changes happened. New management both at Dalpa and the Company. I love this forum where guys not even hired then choose to go to work for this company years later and now can tell those of us who were there everything we did wrong and how screwed up Dalpa was.
The facts are that new Dalpa leadership pulled this airline through the Chapter 11 process in better shape both as a airline and as a pilot contract then anyone else. Dalpa produced substantial and different revenue streams for the pilots including the MPP, Note, Claim and merger money. Money often forgotten in the screams about pay rates. They saved a substantial portion of the retirement and produced a future system with a much fairer result for all pilots junior and senior.
Perhaps even more important a union that was able to work with the company beat off a hostile takeover that everyone else including wallstreet thought was a shoe in. Parker was so arrogant and sure he had the deal he did not even try and sugar coat it to anyone. He was asked about Delta employess he said thousands would be furloughed ASAP. Over 150 aircraft would be parked including every MD88. He told Boeing one of the seats on the creditors committee he would give Boeing no preference on aircraft orders. The same with General Electric on engines. Lee Moak widely hated here did simply amazing work in convincing the creditors committee to forgo a offer that would have put a lot of cash in their pockets asap and wait for a recovering Delta to pay them back. The vote by the committee to stay with Delta was a shock to everyone especially Parker. He was sure the deal was done.
Its great the new guys can tell us everything we did wrong after 911. They did not however live through it and despite that fact that according to many new pilots we failed completely they have eagerly sought work here. Very confusing to me!
07-08-2011 | 07:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Right Seater!!
off topic sorry
anyone have the telex 5*5 pro?? if so where is best place to get the ear mold done?? and cost?
also any complaints about this headset??
anyone have the telex 5*5 pro?? if so where is best place to get the ear mold done?? and cost?
also any complaints about this headset??
07-08-2011 | 07:59 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
... Had he granted that 5 percent mid contract raise and given back the week of vacation Delta might be a very different airline today. Instead you had a pilot group chanting A Contract is A Contract and a CEO afraid to even ask for anything. DALPA leadership would have been tared and feather by the pilot group had they suggested concessions to conserve cash and Leo was afraid of a near riot by the pilots if he pushed for it after his stupid choices.
That left the Dalpa and the Company like two kids at a Junior High Dance looking at each other across the floor. The both wanted to dance and knew they should be dancing together but had no idea how to get it started. As a result contract 01 ran for all but a few months of its full duration.
With cash critical and the airline now almost two late to even file Chapter 11 without liquidation things were beyond critical and major changes happened. New management both at Dalpa and the Company. I love this forum where guys not even hired then choose to go to work for this company years later and now can tell those of us who were there everything we did wrong and how screwed up Dalpa was.
The facts are that new Dalpa leadership pulled this airline through the Chapter 11 process in better shape both as a airline and as a pilot contract then anyone else. Dalpa produced substantial and different revenue streams for the pilots including the MPP, Note, Claim and merger money. Money often forgotten in the screams about pay rates. They saved a substantial portion of the retirement and produced a future system with a much fairer result for all pilots junior and senior.
Perhaps even more important a union that was able to work with the company beat off a hostile takeover that everyone else including wallstreet thought was a shoe in. Parker was so arrogant and sure he had the deal he did not even try and sugar coat it to anyone. He was asked about Delta employess he said thousands would be furloughed ASAP. Over 150 aircraft would be parked including every MD88. He told Boeing one of the seats on the creditors committee he would give Boeing no preference on aircraft orders. The same with General Electric on engines. Lee Moak widely hated here did simply amazing work in convincing the creditors committee to forgo a offer that would have put a lot of cash in their pockets asap and wait for a recovering Delta to pay them back. The vote by the committee to stay with Delta was a shock to everyone especially Parker. He was sure the deal was done.
Its great the new guys can tell us everything we did wrong after 911. They did not however live through it and despite that fact that according to many new pilots we failed completely they have eagerly sought work here. Very confusing to me!
That left the Dalpa and the Company like two kids at a Junior High Dance looking at each other across the floor. The both wanted to dance and knew they should be dancing together but had no idea how to get it started. As a result contract 01 ran for all but a few months of its full duration.
With cash critical and the airline now almost two late to even file Chapter 11 without liquidation things were beyond critical and major changes happened. New management both at Dalpa and the Company. I love this forum where guys not even hired then choose to go to work for this company years later and now can tell those of us who were there everything we did wrong and how screwed up Dalpa was.
The facts are that new Dalpa leadership pulled this airline through the Chapter 11 process in better shape both as a airline and as a pilot contract then anyone else. Dalpa produced substantial and different revenue streams for the pilots including the MPP, Note, Claim and merger money. Money often forgotten in the screams about pay rates. They saved a substantial portion of the retirement and produced a future system with a much fairer result for all pilots junior and senior.
Perhaps even more important a union that was able to work with the company beat off a hostile takeover that everyone else including wallstreet thought was a shoe in. Parker was so arrogant and sure he had the deal he did not even try and sugar coat it to anyone. He was asked about Delta employess he said thousands would be furloughed ASAP. Over 150 aircraft would be parked including every MD88. He told Boeing one of the seats on the creditors committee he would give Boeing no preference on aircraft orders. The same with General Electric on engines. Lee Moak widely hated here did simply amazing work in convincing the creditors committee to forgo a offer that would have put a lot of cash in their pockets asap and wait for a recovering Delta to pay them back. The vote by the committee to stay with Delta was a shock to everyone especially Parker. He was sure the deal was done.
Its great the new guys can tell us everything we did wrong after 911. They did not however live through it and despite that fact that according to many new pilots we failed completely they have eagerly sought work here. Very confusing to me!
As for pilots who were "not even here," we were here, just at a different division.
07-08-2011 | 08:09 AM
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From: B757/767
One thing that appears to be a positive sign was that as Moak moved to national, economic analysis was done, although the numbers (to my knowledge) have not been released to our Reps yet.
Regardless of the data, I believe a union should fight for unity. It is likely the data supports a reversal in our scope strategy.
Regardless of the data, I believe a union should fight for unity. It is likely the data supports a reversal in our scope strategy.
07-08-2011 | 08:10 AM
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From: 7ERB
-----look below---
Last edited by TenYearsGone; 07-08-2011 at 08:32 AM.
07-08-2011 | 08:17 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
07-08-2011 | 08:25 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Hearing RUMORS that a change in negotiating committee being voted on next facilitating a 100 seat scope sale. Have not received verification yet.
Factors which make this appear plausible:
Factors which make this appear plausible:
- ALPA will not commit to holding the line on scope
- Delta's upcoming airplane order will serve as a distraction
- United's management put a "99" seat jet demand on the table
- Republic ordered airplanes it has no apparent need for
- Pinnacle and Republic and Frontier have been playing musical managers and bungee bosses
- Delta has so long delayed fleet replacement that capital expense requirements may result in crisis bargaining
07-08-2011 | 08:27 AM
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From: B757/767
So I just arrive in DTW for my rotation, & scheduling calls to inform me that they cancelled my 1st leg due to delays in JFK for WX resulting in my 4 day becoming a 3 day. This call came around 3 hours before report. This was a 4 day that I swapped with the pot.
If I'm reading Sec 4.4 correctly, I should be paid for the original value of the rotation. Correct? My time card shows the reroute credit, which is around 5 hours LESS pay. Will it just take time to correct? Thanks for the help.
If I'm reading Sec 4.4 correctly, I should be paid for the original value of the rotation. Correct? My time card shows the reroute credit, which is around 5 hours LESS pay. Will it just take time to correct? Thanks for the help.
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