Or you can reduce the number of allowed 76 seat jets buy the number of 76 seat jets brought to mainline.

I understand the argument of not wanting the same jet at DCI as we have at mainline. It is not a good place to be, and we will be our own worst enemy with it.

It is a big jet, and needs to be here.
I have talked to my reps many times and they seem to agree that scope is not for sale. I just home actions mirror words. We will be getting very close to the 255 limit here in the future.

We own the flying but are allowing it to be outsourced to DCI. We need inclusive scope. (Not by type certificate either)

Well Slowplay, you're entitled to your opinion. The one thing I know was I was flying at Express when I was furloughed from Delta and when I came back 2 1/2 years later, there were more shiny new 70 seat RJ's than you you could count on the ramp in SLC. 10,500 pilots down to 5,700 pilots. No, the history I know was the reality of my furlough and the scope concessions that happened while I was on the street. We're all entitled to our opinions.

Great concept. Now tell me how to get management to agree to it when we're not in section 6...

Management can already fly all the EMB or CRJ they want at mainline. There's a payrate for them. There's ZERO of them here.

Where's your leverage?

Yup, we're all entitled to our opinions. We're just not entitled to our own "facts."

Your numbers are way off. And if we conceded so much on scope, how'd you get recalled? Why aren't you still flying that Express Jet? Instead, 700 new guys got hired after you...

Your condescending tone is what gives the Delta pilot a bad name. Instead of civilly discussing a topic, you feel the need to express your superiority. I almost thought I was on our DALPA forum for a moment...

Please come back when you can play nice. We're here discussing ideas, not trying to tear each other apart.

Very Respectfully,

TC

Why don't you get your facts straight.... I never said I flew at Express Jet. As you may recall, we had a little operation at Delta Air Lines called Delta Express.

Back at you, cat. You think your fellow pilots "roll over," yet you have problems when called on it.

Anytime, baby!;)

Maybe we should tell management that we'll talk about early retirements when we're in Section 6 negotiations. Why is it that management can discuss these items with us, but you feel that we can't discuss anything else with them while we're at the bargaining table? Is not negotiating a two way street?

My leverage is the numbers. CPS in its current form is very cheap, I give you that, but we are paying 100's of millions of dollars in profits a year to DCI and the affiliated carriers by the way of guaranteed and performance margins.

I know that management likes the carrot of cheaper labor even with the cost of the margins weighing over our heads. As they say sometimes you have to spend money to make it. IMHO in this case they are willing to spend this money because to date it has lowered overall pilot costs at the mainline.

Don't give them a flow, don't give them a way to lower DCI fixed costs and guess what, you gain leverage there too. DCI is getting expensive. People are not leaving because we have had way too much taken for some to take the leap to mainline. Those pilots that have chosen to stay are making their operations expensive enough that DAL management is taking note.
We are in the era of trying to find a way to lower DCI's costs to make them the cash cow of yesteryear. Unless you give them a quantifiable way to get costs down (bi-lateral flow with five or so DCI carriers) it is going to be very hard for them to do it. They know they will not get concessions out of these guys until their DCI contracts come up. 10 years is two life times in this industry.
The way I see it, their costs are leverage enough. We can do it with current book rates, and with the exception of the few jets that CPS has, cheaper. Given them a flow and we will not have a argument (based on cost) to stand on. They know it.
Look at the lease terms of the DCI fleet. Even the 900's are not ultra long term. They are waiting for a bigger jet to come by. When they do, what are we going to do? You solve a mid term issue for our management by giving them a flow agreement. They(upper management) do not care who flies the jets, we the pilots in Flt Ops do, but if they can reset seniority of these 10+ year guys and about 50% will take it, they have significantly lowered their DCI costs to make these jets that are under-performing, perform for another 10 to 20 years.
That IMHO is the dirty little secret about a bi-lateral flow.