I agree I have over 6K hrs in the CRJ platform. Great jet and it needs to be here. I would be happy to fly it again in a DAL uniform and on this list. I did not leave because of the flying. I left because it is contract flying that needs to go back to the mainline. Period.

[quote=slowplay;616158]It's definitely a two way street.

We can tell management to pound sand until Section 6 on a retirement incentive plan. Those 747/767 displacements then will trickle down, reducing income for a whole bunch of our members throughout the seniority list. Or management can get the savings of not having to displace as many people while maintaining some operational flexibility, and pilot pay can stay higher with fewer training events.


I believe from talking to a rep that the program is planned as a cost neutral program. Management is willing to spend the estimated cost savings from reduced training and other factors. There is no gain other then pilot moral for them to offer a early out so I doubt we have a great deal of leverage to make demands. There is a special MEC meeting next Wednesday. I suspect details of the program will be out by Thursday.

A bankruptcy judge.

I don't know who ran and who didn't. Do you?

Haven't you been reading my posts? Lee is not the only problem. The MEC "subordinates" who do anything he says is also a problem. Do have a comprehension problem as well?

Unintelligible.

Carl

The jet operated by Compass is a distinct type, operated at distinct weights and if it were at mainline it would be an 88 seat jet.

There are plenty of distinctions that make it different and then we go after Republic (who is non-ALPA, who we can legally beat the crap out of) for their non compliance (which I am almost certain of now) and establish the type on the property.

Why is a hostage that flows off the property fine with you? What's more of a hostage a pilot who bid a lower paid position, or someone furloughed to the street?

I'm not saying the deal did not change through the iterations between NewCo/NWA70/Compass, but the Zipline actually shows ALPA went to the table a year and a half before bankruptcy. It also reflects the "bargaining credit" for a whole generation of pilots jobs and upgrades was only 15 million. Given the longevity loss and stoverpipe effect of upgrades, our flying was sold very, very, cheaply.

I agree with you the problem is that ALPA is not responsive to its membership. Further, it has been a lot less than candid in the education of its membership when it blames Spetember 11th and bankruptcy for deals that were done long before the later crises that came to our profession.

It takes about 18 months lead time to get airplanes ordered and everything ready to deploy them. Delta announced a 500 RJ order in March of 2000, well before 9/11/2001. The outsourcing deals maintained a comfortable lead, enabling Delta to take delivery of these airplanes on schedule.

At its core, ALPA firmly believes this outsourcing is a good thing. Slowplay and I disagree, but I earnestly respect his candor. What he writes is much more representative of the mainstream powers that be in our union than anyone else on this board.

They are doing it to save themselves money over the alternative of displacements and training, and painting it as a favor to the pilot group. I agree that there is little leverage to demand anything as I understand they not asking for anything in return.

That said, any Rep who believes they are doing this as zero-sum for themselves and are it's to simply improve pilot morale is dangerously naive. :eek: It IS good for us, but it's still better for them

[quote=Bucking Bar;616217]The jet operated by Compass is a distinct type, operated at distinct weights and if it were at mainline it would be an 88 seat jet.

Bucking Bar, I know your a smart guy so I wonder why you continue to post this. The aircraft is certified for a max of 88 seats. We don't operate a single mainline aircraft at its max certified capacity. In fact we don't operate at anything close to max capacity on any airframe. The 757 is certified for 228 passengers. We seat around 184 in most of them. The E175 can only seat 88 passengers in a single class with a 27 inch seat pitch. If we dropped all seat restrictions tomorrow or added the aircraft to the mainline it would still only seat 76. Management loves the first class product on the jet. They are not taking it out. If they did take it out you gain one row or 4 seats with the Delta standard of 31 to 32 inches of seat pitch. Lots of good reasons to argue for getting this jet at the mainline. Don't use one that makes no sense.

I really hope you're wrong on this Bar. I really do.

All I am trying to say to the junior DAL-S pilots is that the numbers are going to change with us DAL-N guys on the property. A vast majority of us (regardless of seniority) would vote to strike rather than cave in on Scope. We've caved in on Scope before, and we're done with that.

The bottom half of the DAL-S guys need to keep their chin up. You're new brothers agree with you.

Carl

A lot of the cost advantange for the carriers comes from the mainline in the form of bulk purchase of fuel and food, guarenteed seat purchase, use of mainline gates; help with purchase of their aircraft.

[quote=Carl Spackler;615937]OK Carl,
That's twice now that I totally agree with you.
BD