Listen closely Alfa...DAL management would not have spoken to Lee or anybody else about pay raises or any other subject in mid contract. No way. DAL management had to ask for relief because the merger with NWA was going to violate the DAL Scope clause. Without DAL management's wish to merge with NWA, there would have been no negotiations on anything. If I were to say that you and Lee should thank us for the pay raises, that would sound as idiotic as you saying we should thank Lee.

Can anyone else help me with this one? I clearly remember DAL pilots talking about an attempt to recall Lee, but it failed. Is Alfa right on this??

You really consider my previous posts on this subject a tyrannical rant? You really are talking as if you are a jilted lover. Sheeeesh!

Carl

a. 50 seats don't care, 70 plus delta pilots
b. don't care what you call it
c. if you haven't fixed a. above then no. once you fix a then fine

Lee was not subject to the recall. The LEC 44 reps were, which in turn could have voted Lee out, if they were 1) voted out and 2) along with the newly elected LEC reps had enough votes to do so.
Those pesky by-laws again.

What he said.

The merger with NWA could have been accomplished without a new contract. The Dalpa scope clause would have presented problems for management but not on the level to stop the merger. In fact management stated at one point that they would not do the merger without Dalpa. We said no and they said merger off. Fast forward a couple of months and they came back and said the Merger was happening with or without DALPA. Yes they would have had to park some larger RJ's but the merger could have happened.

I will answer these also.

A. 50 seaters should be flown by connection carriers. Whatever aircraft you fly at the mainline you have to be very very close to the industry average on costs. We could never get there flying these aircraft at the mainline. We would end up getting pushed out of most markets that now generate feed for the mainline and see a large loss in mainline flying. Anyone remember walking through CVG during the Comair strike? The cost per seat mile on 50 seaters is already very high compared to the mainline. If it went higher then much of the mainline would also not be cost viable. You have to look at the total picture. What does it cost to pick up a passenger in Jacksonville NC and fly them to Rome. There are lots of choices for that passenger to get to Rome. The RJ segment they fly is a big part of the cost puzzle.
B. The 170/175 is a mainline aircraft. It should be flown by the mainline period. We lost it because of a unique combination of circumstances that are not likely to ever occur again. I am not worried about the scope limit going higher like the doom and gloom pilots on here. The company knows they got every inch they could out of the Chapter 11 filing. Bringing those aircraft back to the mainline will be a long and difficult fight and will have to be done in stages. It is possible however. It will depend on both external and internal factors. We can only control the internal factors. It would also have to be flown at a competitive wage to the competition making it unlikely any pilots on the current mainline list would ever fly it.
C. We can't staple Compass to our current list. The company maintains and controls the seniority list not DALPA. This small fact is seems to be unknown by many pilots. I can't tell you how many Comair pilots told me that DALPA only had to say lets do it and it was done. Wrong on all counts. What we could do is ask the company to merger the airlines. Chances of that happening are less then zero since there are many other factors involved including what happens with other owned connection carriers.
The key point however is that we can never bring the Compass pilots onboard unless we own the entire class of flying. Scope the flying first and then I am all for bringing the Compass pilots onboard. You can't however staple them. You will have to follow ALPA merger policy. This is codified under Federal Law now. If we were able to convince the company to merge the list and we don't own that flying or have a long term plan to phase all that flying to the mainline it would be a complete and utter disaster for DALPA come the next round of contract negotiations. First rule of modern contract negotiations. Take Hostages. We would be handing them to the company on a silver platter.

Actually, I believe they can be stapled. Here's why. Federal law says that if both units are of the same union, then union policy prevails. Under the ALPA merger policy, if both units agree to a staple, than you can staple. Both don't absolutely outlaw a staple, only say it can't be forced on one party by another.

When mainline purchases the fuel, pays for the seats, uses mainline reservations and mainline gates...what is the true cost of the connection carriers?

And that is why the MEC agues that the CPS pilot need their own MEC so that they have a voice in that matter. There are things that could be changed in the Admin manual to not have to do this. In effect the CPS issue has some sticky issues that need to be dealt with very carefully, but YES, it can and should be done.

Also we need to recapture the flying and or amend section one so that taking the said CPS pilot and jets does not allow more 76 seat jets to be outsourced to the lowest bidder.

Sailing,

Thanks for the info. I agree with you and Alfa, I guess it's just a chicken or egg discussion over Compass since I agree with you that the EMB-175 ain't no RJ.........it's a mainline jet stuck up our bu##s in BK as you said. The Compass guys are our guys, the goal needs to be that they are on our list.

Good info on Compass. I was one of those guys who had the wrong impression. But, as Just said, if both sides agree.............

Also, Ice as said, what is the cost of the RJs? They get a lot of stuff from us that we don't seem to charge for. I remember when I was still in the USAF I would price tickets home to Ariz from TX and the price from the little town I lived in were the same as if I drove to DFW. Told me that the connection was absorbed into the mainline flight. I guess that is where you get the "hub premium" eh?

Interesting discussion. I just wish the MEC would do more than just discuss it.

Ferd