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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
(Post 1107895)
I agree with you FIIGMO. I was browsing through the different airlines on AirlinePilotCentral and noticed our hubs and their hubs. It seems DAL's hubs are very much inferior to the new UAL in terms of O&D, and AMR's. I have always been of the school of thought that if your hub isn't strong in O&D, it isn't going to last as a hub or it is very costly. Think CVG.
You brought up the 787 and that is another area where if they acquire lots of them first, they will have a huge advantage. One thing that chaps me is the lack of world wide internet. Gogo is cool, but it sucks that you can't use it on an international flight. Southwest, who at the time didn't fly international, went with a satellite based system. According to APC, UAL upgraded all of their wide bodies to lay flat seats as well. I thought DAL was leading, but now I think we are just keeping our head above water. DAL has always been a follower with "innovations." On the surface, this may seem smart, you save money by not buying into a scheme that doesnt make you money. However, DAL goes a step futher, by buying from the lowest bidder. In flight entertainment - lowest bidder - problems with the system for years; Lie flat seats - late to the game and mod lines continue to be full; Cockpit tablet; Every airline has gone with Apple, DAL seems intent to again go with a different one - one that isn't yet faa approved - Save a penny, but in the end it costs them more.:( |
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
(Post 1107895)
You brought up the 787 and that is another area where if they acquire lots of them first, they will have a huge advantage.
In addition, I'd hope we got a pretty penny for our very generous decade long deferral as well as several years worth of compounding penalties we were owed as well. I'm sure the 737-900ER's were deeply, deeply discounted and possibly other deals in the works like very favorable 717's and/or 777's or cheaper 787's down the road. If we were really smart we'd lock in bargain prices in today's dollars for planes to come 5+ years down the road and pay those puppies off with inflation funny money. |
Originally Posted by gloopy
(Post 1107956)
I think in that instance whoever gets them later will have the advantage. Supposedly the A models aren't meeting specs and the true cost including financing is at or above the cost of moving peeps in 76ER's with winglets on any route that massive range isn't an issue. I think we are waiting for the bugs to get worked out as well as for the second gen 787 (-900?) to come out as it supposedly has much better numbers financially and odds are far better reliability issues up front.
In addition, I'd hope we got a pretty penny for our very generous decade long deferral as well as several years worth of compounding penalties we were owed as well. I'm sure the 737-900ER's were deeply, deeply discounted and possibly other deals in the works like very favorable 717's and/or 777's or cheaper 787's down the road. If we were really smart we'd lock in bargain prices in today's dollars for planes to come 5+ years down the road and pay those puppies off with inflation funny money. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1107952)
I wonder if BA knows they own a 800? They are not listed as owning one and don't have any on order.
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Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1107953)
DAL has always been a follower with "innovations." On the surface, this may seem smart, you save money by not buying into a scheme that doesnt make you money. However, DAL goes a step futher, by buying from the lowest bidder. In flight entertainment - lowest bidder - problems with the system for years; Lie flat seats - late to the game and mod lines continue to be full; Cockpit tablet; Every airline has gone with Apple, DAL seems intent to again go with a different one - one that isn't yet faa approved - Save a penny, but in the end it costs them more.:(
Case in point: The infamous MD-11. Carriers that were serious about US to Asia service bought the 747-400. Delta (under Ron Allen's "leadership") went with the MD-11 as it was cheaper. So how did that work out? It didn't live up to the range/performance guarantees from McDonnell Douglas (are you stunned?) which required additional fuel stops. ...You buy a ticket on Delta to fly nonstop to Tokyo and then the pilots make a PA saying "sorry folks we've got to stop for fuel and we'll be an hour or two late". Meanwhile your buddies (who booked on UAL or NWA) flew in a 747 and made it all the way. Would you book on Delta the next time? My viewpoint is if Delta goes with the iPad instead of some "el-cheapo" alternative (that the manufacturer claims is just as good) that would signify a shift in management philosophy about looking for "value" instead of "price". |
Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom
(Post 1107974)
This is so true.
Case in point: The infamous MD-11. Carriers that were serious about US to Asia service bought the 747-400. Delta (under Ron Allen's "leadership") went with the MD-11 as it was cheaper. So how did that work out? It didn't live up to the range/performance guarantees from McDonnell Douglas (are you stunned?) which required additional fuel stops. ...You buy a ticket on Delta to fly nonstop to Tokyo and then the pilots make a PA saying "sorry folks we've got to stop for fuel and we'll be an hour or two late". Meanwhile your buddies (who booked on UAL or NWA) flew in a 747 and made it all the way. Would you book on Delta the next time? My viewpoint is if Delta goes with the iPad instead of some "el-cheapo" alternative (that the manufacturer claims is just as good) that would signify a shift in management philosophy about looking for "value" instead of "price". The fuel stops were urban legend on the MD11. It never stopped for fuel going to Tokyo. The stops made were crew swaps in PDX when they did not have a bunked aircraft for the over 12 flights. It stopped perhaps half a dozen times during the LAX-Hong Kong operation however every time we stopped the Cathy 747 on the route stopped also. |
I remember reading in the paper about a DAL crew that stopped in Nome, AK due to pilot fatigue. If I recall, it doubled the population of the city when the aircraft landed. Had to bunk pax in the school gym, on cots or something. Can anybody fill in some details????
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I also remember maybe half a dozen times passing over a DAL MD-11 on NWAs NRT-MSP route (DAL was probably going to JFK, or maybe ATL?) when the MD-11 was at FL270 till fuel was burned off, and enabling a climb. We were usually 4,000' above them, sometimes more. That's gotta' be expensive
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1107952)
I wonder if BA knows they own a 800? They are not listed as owning one and don't have any on order.
^^^^ note the sign ^^^^ http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../5/2008505.jpg http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../4/2031468.jpg |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1107952)
I wonder if BA knows they own a 800? They are not listed as owning one and don't have any on order.
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../5/2032580.jpg http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../8/2017818.jpg more to come... |
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