Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-09-2012, 08:57 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,839
Originally Posted by georgetg
LI'd like to get a straight to members communique that provides an honest assessment of where we are. Things like JV production balance, RJ departures vs mainline, codeshare operations, other airlines, and a bit of strategic outlook from those tasked with producing these types of reports.
Lastly lots of committees currently help craft language and then measure the effectiveness. I'd love to see an independent compliance committee that does nothing but measure how we are doing.
Cheers
George
Lastly lots of committees currently help craft language and then measure the effectiveness. I'd love to see an independent compliance committee that does nothing but measure how we are doing.
Cheers
George
We need to wrest the committee structure back from the MEC Chair, and put it back where it belongs, with the MEC at large.
Nu
02-09-2012, 09:03 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Good post, excellent point. Let me throw out an (unofficial, I'm nobody) update.
Trip parking was addressed by the MEC and agreed by the Company. Implementation of the software changes is supposed to happen late summer (yeah, I noticed that too) but the reasoning sounds logical, there are other coding issues that the software folks have on their list ahead of this.
It was mentioned at the C44 meeting that ALPA should consider a letter to the Delta pilots discouraging the practice. On the basis of that letter, some pilots would refuse to participate in having trips parked on their lines.
The Reps seemed interested in doing this and clearly everyone feels a pilot should get the flying their seniority allows. Seniority trumps folks figuring out a way to rig the system.
Trip parking was addressed by the MEC and agreed by the Company. Implementation of the software changes is supposed to happen late summer (yeah, I noticed that too) but the reasoning sounds logical, there are other coding issues that the software folks have on their list ahead of this.
It was mentioned at the C44 meeting that ALPA should consider a letter to the Delta pilots discouraging the practice. On the basis of that letter, some pilots would refuse to participate in having trips parked on their lines.
The Reps seemed interested in doing this and clearly everyone feels a pilot should get the flying their seniority allows. Seniority trumps folks figuring out a way to rig the system.
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
The fix is that if a trip leaves your line the only way it can come back to your line is via PCS.
Originally Posted by newKnow
If that's the reality we live in we are in trouble. While we shrink, the very company's we might merge with are probably growing. A relative SLI with one of those pilot groups would suck for us.
02-09-2012, 09:17 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom
I don't like the concept of trip parking...
Hypothetically: Suppose someone is senior in category. They park their trip on a buddy's line, that buddy then personal drops it and it goes into open time. If the guy who had the trip originally is senior, he can pick it up via PCS. Having sufficient seniority allows one to circumvent the intention of the change.
To me it would be simpler just to make the max pick up the ALV+15 period, whether you get there via trip swaps or white slips etc.
I understand there are issues in some international categories (where there are no shorter trips) that pilots can't get to the ALV so perhaps there could be a written exception that over a two month period a pilot may not exceed the combined month's ALVs plus 30 hours.
What am I missing?
Hypothetically: Suppose someone is senior in category. They park their trip on a buddy's line, that buddy then personal drops it and it goes into open time. If the guy who had the trip originally is senior, he can pick it up via PCS. Having sufficient seniority allows one to circumvent the intention of the change.
To me it would be simpler just to make the max pick up the ALV+15 period, whether you get there via trip swaps or white slips etc.
I understand there are issues in some international categories (where there are no shorter trips) that pilots can't get to the ALV so perhaps there could be a written exception that over a two month period a pilot may not exceed the combined month's ALVs plus 30 hours.
What am I missing?
No, here's what you are missing: If the parked trip ends up in published open time, to be picked back up by the same guy who parked it on his buddies line to grab something else, he cannot then also grab his original trip from published open time through PCS because THAT pickup is ruled by ALV+15 MAX, where as if you park a trip, grab open time, unpark it, there is NO LIMIT to the amount of time you can pick up. Going through PCS has the ALV+15 limit, that's WHY guys park trips, to get around that limit.
Theoretically, you could 'park' your entire month's trips on a few other guys scheds, then white slip as much published time as you can fit on your (now empty) line, (up to ALV+15) then go back and -unpark- all your original trips, and as long as there were no FAR violations, (30 in 7) you are good to go, with a huge line value....
You wonder why all these guys are white slipping? Because they have parked some trips somewhere, and then take them back. You wonder why there will be displacements?
That's why.
02-09-2012, 09:19 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Sink r8
Do you object to limiting flying to ALV+15, or do you objct to the manner I would suggest getting there? I'm flexible on how we do it in our next contract.
I object to trip parking. And I object to the way you propose fixing it.
I do not have a problem with the swap board allowing a guy to pick up a trip that puts him above ALV+15. I have the problem with the way it is being done via trip parking - that is a cheat.
If a trip leaves a guys line, it should not be able to come back unless it runs through (either) the PCS or goes back onto the swap board for a period of time (24-48 hrs).
I would be fine with an ALV+15 limit, a bow wave, or a rolling 2 month scheduling system (777 category has needed this for years).
I am also flexible with the way it is repaired, but your proposal was short sighted IMO.
02-09-2012, 09:32 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
I think the simplest way to fix the high time trip in Int. categories bidding problem is, set a fixed cap (ALV+15?), and allow a Bow Wave.
That way, you can push time into your next month without having to fly a cary out trip every month. You could run the PCS max pickup to say, ALV+ 30, but only if you are UNDER ALV+15 before the PCS, and then you'd be paid ALV +15, but anything over ALV+15 goes as bow wave and crdited towards your next month's bidding.
That way, you can push time into your next month without having to fly a cary out trip every month. You could run the PCS max pickup to say, ALV+ 30, but only if you are UNDER ALV+15 before the PCS, and then you'd be paid ALV +15, but anything over ALV+15 goes as bow wave and crdited towards your next month's bidding.
02-09-2012, 09:45 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 799
Originally Posted by georgetg
JV Production Balance
Below is a Delta slide from March of 2011 that shows clearly how suspending enforcement of the JV production balance on March 31, 2011 permitted less growth or more reductions for Delta vs the JV partners. There is no upside. Going forward we should never bargain away scope enforcement now while "gaining" a larger share in the future, because if there is any lesson from the last 10 years, it's that the future is utterly unpredictable. BTW if AF/KLM "rationalizes their money losing network" they will shrink to compliance, no Delta growth required...
Section 1
Section 1 is under attack on all levels and needs a significant overhaul to make it effective in the future. At the very least I'd like to see all JVs regardless of profit sharing or revenue sharing to have a minimum 50% production balance in favor of Delta pilots and an annual enforcement mechanism. No more 3-year windows without enforcement. DCI and all NAFTA codeshare operations need to go in one pot that is indexed to mainline flying. Let the company sort out how, when and who to deploy but measure them all towards the cap. 255 has to be the cap on large RJs. Not only no more but index the cap to the actual in operation mainline fleet and flex it down, should mainline shrink...
Communication
This really is the Achilles heel of our current administration. Significant gains were made early on. Unfortunately the quality and quantity of information makes it feel like we're flying an ULH flight towards a Hurricane at the destination and our ACARS is inop...
I'd like to get a straight to members communique that provides an honest assessment of where we are. Things like JV production balance, RJ departures vs mainline, codeshare operations, other airlines, and a bit of strategic outlook from those tasked with producing these types of reports.
Lastly lots of committees currently help craft language and then measure the effectiveness. I'd love to see an independent compliance committee that does nothing but measure how we are doing.
Cheers
George
02-09-2012, 09:53 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom
I don't like the concept of trip parking...
Hypothetically: Suppose someone is senior in category. They park their trip on a buddy's line, that buddy then personal drops it and it goes into open time. If the guy who had the trip originally is senior, he can pick it up via PCS. Having sufficient seniority allows one to circumvent the intention of the change.
To me it would be simpler just to make the max pick up the ALV+15 period, whether you get there via trip swaps or white slips etc.
I understand there are issues in some international categories (where there are no shorter trips) that pilots can't get to the ALV so perhaps there could be a written exception that over a two month period a pilot may not exceed the combined month's ALVs plus 30 hours.
What am I missing?
Hypothetically: Suppose someone is senior in category. They park their trip on a buddy's line, that buddy then personal drops it and it goes into open time. If the guy who had the trip originally is senior, he can pick it up via PCS. Having sufficient seniority allows one to circumvent the intention of the change.
To me it would be simpler just to make the max pick up the ALV+15 period, whether you get there via trip swaps or white slips etc.
I understand there are issues in some international categories (where there are no shorter trips) that pilots can't get to the ALV so perhaps there could be a written exception that over a two month period a pilot may not exceed the combined month's ALVs plus 30 hours.
What am I missing?
As they stated, the coding for this will take some time, and will be implemented after this summer.
02-09-2012, 10:05 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Could someone explain trip parking in laymans terms? I don't get it.
02-09-2012, 10:09 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Delta1067
Could someone explain trip parking in laymans terms? I don't get it.
02-09-2012, 10:20 AM
Weekend and Holiday Pilot
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Sippin' at the Troubadour
Posts: 1,141
Originally Posted by Delta1067
Could someone explain trip parking in laymans terms? I don't get it.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
