Then there's the math problem that stems from your creation in bankruptcy. The Captain on your flight made a max of $72 per hour. The FO made $37/hr. A Delta MD-88 Captain would make $168/hr, and his FO would make $112/hr. Those pay and longevity disparities go through all work groups. You were also flying a 76 seat jet. The MD-88 holds 142/150, the A-319 pays more on 124 seats, so it's not likely the routes are currently economically operable with a larger aircraft in the timeslots you flew.

Even if you brought that 76 seat jet to mainline the cost disparities continue. A Delta CRJ-900 Captain would receive $116/hr and his FO would get $67/hr. On top of those hourly rates comes 14% DC, and the difference has to be applied to those on reserve as well. I don't know your rigs, but that trip would pay 21 hours on mainline. That's over $1900 difference in direct wages just for pilots on that 4 day trip, and that grossly understates the real labor number.

Compass created a labor arbitrage. Management had the bankruptcy hammer to make it happen. That type of arbitrage is what is killing Comair and is about to hurt SKYW/ASA/Expressjet as they lose 12 airplanes to Gojets. It's all in the longevity. In your segment the "younger" pilot groups are winning.

You get 14%? I only get 11%, and I'm a Delta pilot.

02-14-2012 | 05:25 AM

#89003

Whidbey

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Oct 2010

Posts: 123

Likes: 0

From: New to mother D

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

Wow... they gave it almost 2 years before punching out? Best of luck to them. In 2 or 3 years, ax them if they still made the right decision. I'm betting the answer will be.. uh.. no.

And I don't know of anybody that is "accepting" of the pay disparity.

How long should they give it when they have job offers with a much more substantial pay package?

One mistake of the past generation of pilots has been to make sacrifices in the present while banking on delayed compensation, whether it be in terms of a pension, future upgrade, etc.

Another issue guys cite is the much higher quality of health care elsewhere. How much is that worth to a family with young children?

And T, I respectfully disagree about guys not being able to admit how much more our SWA brothers are paid. There is a serious case of denial going on with a lot of folks at delta.

02-14-2012 | 05:26 AM

#89004

freightguy

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Dec 2007

Posts: 374

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1234

I am curious why you think the company should offer leaves for our pilots to go and fly for a competitor, just long enough so that they can come back with some seniority?

Why because, I have not flown a single trip in the last month. I have averaged around 5-10 hrs per month for the last several months. I have to head back to the sim for bounces soon. Why pay me when they can cut me loose for few years and save money?

02-14-2012 | 05:34 AM

#89005

forgot to bid

veut gagner à la loterie

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 23,286

Likes: 0

From: Light Chop

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

Someone I was hired with decided to go to World over DAL. Times change. There is safety in numbers sometimes.

02-14-2012 | 05:44 AM

#89006

TenYearsGone

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Dec 2009

Posts: 2,039

Likes: 0

From: 7ERB

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyBoy

They couldn't pay me enough to live in Dubai. I'd rather live in the U.S. and work for minimum wage at a Taco Bell than live in Dubai.

You are right.
Even though the Emirates pay package seems nice to the US aviator: it is minimum wage in Dubai.

TEN

02-14-2012 | 05:46 AM

#89007

DALMD88FO

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Aug 2006

Posts: 1,465

Likes: 0

From: A330 First Officer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whidbey

At least two from my new hire class (2010) have already left and several more are actively interviewing elsewhere.

There is an incredible pay disparity between what we are paid and what our brothers at SWA and FedEx are paid. It's been interesting to watch so many on APC be unwilling to accept that.

I'm not a Delta cheerleader, however I think your friends are going to regret that decision. Here is how the industry works....you are leading the way one day (everyone wanted to be a UAL pilot in 2000, when they got their new contract and then a DAL pilot in 2001 when we got ours) then the next day you are the goat and everyone wants to be the current flavor of the day (since 911 SWA, FEDEX, UPS, JetBlue have been ruling the roost). But people that have been in this industry for a couple of decades or so have seen the cycle so it's pretty much smart not to brag too much today about your "industry leading contract" because you may have to eat those words later.

I was hired at SWA before I was hired at DAl. I called a buddy of mine, at American, and told him the news. He said great now you need to make it to the one of the big three (American, United or Delta). This was 2000 and SWA just didn't have the pay or retirement compared to a legacy airline. Now the whole industry is going to a 401k/DC plan retirement and SWA leads the way in pay.

02-14-2012 | 05:51 AM

#89008

FmrFreightDog

Line Holder

Joined: Sep 2006

Posts: 868

Likes: 18

From: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.

Nevermind... IT issues solved.

02-14-2012 | 05:53 AM

#89009

forgot to bid

veut gagner à la loterie

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 23,286

Likes: 0

From: Light Chop

Quote:

Originally Posted by JungleBus

I see we're talking outsourcing again so I'll add a little fuel to the fire. Overworked DC9 and MD80 guys, here's my current trip that could be yours, if only the E175 "RJ" was flown in-house.

Day 1: MSP-MDW-MSP-BZN. 15 hour overnight in Bozeman eating free hotwings and drinking $3 Moose Drool.
Day 2: BZN-SLC-SNA. Done by 9:30am, 20 hour overnight in sunny Orange County CA.
Day 3: SNA-SLC-YVR. In by 1pm, 17 hours in Vancouver BC hanging out at the Flying Beaver.
Day 4: YVR-MSP-ORD-MSP. Back in time for most commuters to catch their ride home. That 1200nm leg from YVR to MSP is sure "regional," eh?

But hey, DALPA has no interest in recapturing this flying. Really, what mainline pilot would want to lower themselves to this??

Jungle, by all means if you have any more gem's like this one send it over! I think we should start posting Compass trips around the crewroom and here.

We could use this picture with a banner headline "Miss Us Yet?" to help illustrate the point:

EMB-175 Cockpit in the ATL.

02-14-2012 | 05:57 AM

#89010

freightguy

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Dec 2007

Posts: 374

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenYearsGone

You are right.
Even though the Emirates pay package seems nice to the US aviator: it is minimum wage in Dubai.

TEN

I am not interested in Dubai either for several reasons. But money wise, Emirates pilots have got us beat by far. The average household income both in Dubai and the US are very similar. It is around $5000 per month. So even a first year Emirates pilot is definitely not anywhere close to minimum wage... they make much much better than average household income. Whereas here in the US, we are definitely making less than US average during our first year. And don't forget the regionals where some pilots are well under the poverty line.