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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1165352)
Okay, what leverage (outside of my brilliantly conceived PR campaign) do we have to reduce scope other than refusing to sign a TA? Which I am on the record as being fine with.
So the question is would you approve this: A) Status quo, 618 regional jets, 255 seating 51+, 153 seating 76, plus Alaska codeshare, or What would you guys chose? B) 200 regional jets total, cap at 0 50 seaters, max 200 76 seaters, no Alaska codeshare. I'd chose B and have no problem saying that. It's a gain, assuming plan A didn't work then plan B, negotiate and increase flying here and decrease it there. And why concentrate just on the 76 seater, the 70 seater is just as damaging and interchangeable and we have 255 in total of those. So give up 6 seats on 47 airplanes and eliminate 418 others. I'll be honest, if someone said A and we stood our ground that's fine, either way is not a loss from what we have now. But I'd prefer a gain. The place to start is within our own LECs. We need to continuously, vigorously and doggedly lobby our own Reps, convincing them that the only solution is one which unifies Delta flying and Delta pilots. We need to stay on this out sourcing issue like Michael Moore stays on a Cheeseburger, until it is all gone. Frankly, we do not have the will to use the tools at our disposal. Until we build that will in our Representatives, our own thoughts on leverage mean very little. Frankly, a nationwide SOS against the RLA is long over due, but no one is going there (and I'm not suggesting it). So, if I may proffer "Plan C" which is pretty much what we are doing here. Communicating, supporting our Reps and holding ALPA accountable for results. |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1165267)
OK, and then it goes to Aribitration, and...then you're flying an RJ, as copilot, and they're flying MD80's or 717's.
Think it can't happen? Why not ask all the former DL MD88 guys displaced to the NW DC 9's how that worked out for them? There are several solutions to avoid the concerns you have raised. The solution we suggested back in 2000 when the ASA, Comair & Delta tie up was kicked around went something like this:
Then pilots remain in their own system until able to bid unfilled vacancies on the Delta list. All new equipment is flown on the Delta list. If there are furloughs, each group furloughs out of their own company order, out of their own list. Eventually, through growth and fleet renewal, everyone is on the Delta list flying Delta equipment. The good part of this model is that folks bid into openings, mostly when they choose and when their seniority can hold it. In the ASA / Comair proposal, we wrote a DOH zipper for the regional jockeys and a staple on the bottom of the Delta list. Ten years later there is a squabble about whether or not this existed. Regardless, this model seems like it would work well in an instance where there was no overlap in equipment (which is by design in our scope language). |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1165267)
OK, and then it goes to Aribitration, and...then you're flying an RJ, as copilot, and they're flying MD80's or 717's.
Think it can't happen? Why not ask all the former DL MD88 guys displaced to the NW DC 9's how that worked out for them? How has it worked out for the former DL MD88 guys, by the way? The last time I flew the -9, either we were following an -88 to wherever we were going, or they were following us. New K (Defender of the -9, forever.) :D |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1165303)
Hey, there's an idea!
Now all we have to do is get Garry Kelly to talk to them! We're going to need more kittens... But seriously, I doubt they would accept a staple if it were a 'merger' and who knows what an arbitrator would do with a 15yr. RJ Capt., but I doubt he'd be stapled to the bottom. |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1165362)
Timbo,
There are several solutions to avoid the concerns you have raised. The solution we suggested back in 2000 when the ASA, Comair & Delta tie up was kicked around went something like this:
Then pilots remain in their own system until able to bid unfilled vacancies on the Delta list. All new equipment is flown on the Delta list. If there are furloughs, each group furloughs out of their own company order, out of their own list. Eventually, through growth and fleet renewal, everyone is on the Delta list flying Delta equipment. The good part of this model is that folks bid into openings, mostly when they choose and when their seniority can hold it. In the ASA / Comair proposal, we wrote a DOH zipper for the regional jockeys and a staple on the bottom of the Delta list. Ten years later there is a squabble about whether or not this existed. Regardless, this model seems like it would work well in an instance where there was no overlap in equipment (which is by design in our scope language). I personally listened to what Comair had to say about a seniority list integration. They wanted the list done via ALPA merger policy and stated that they would pursue DOH within that policy. They would not except a staple under any circumstances. Regardless it was all a moot point since management controls the seniority list not the union. Management had zero intention under any circumstances of merging those lists. |
Here's something to celebrate:
http://linapps.s3.amazonaws.com/lina...each-7e92d.jpg Nobody died after a "catastrophic mechanical failure on takeoff" and crash into an apartment building. http://www.wavy.com/ |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1165398)
Here's something to celebrate:
http://linapps.s3.amazonaws.com/lina...each-7e92d.jpg Nobody died after a "catastrophic mechanical failure on takeoff" and crash into an apartment building. WAVY.com | News, Weather and Traffic for Hampton Roads, Virginia and North Carolina |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1165362)
Timbo,
There are several solutions to avoid the concerns you have raised. The solution we suggested back in 2000 when the ASA, Comair & Delta tie up was kicked around went something like this:
If there are furloughs, each group furloughs out of their own company order, out of their own list. Eventually, through growth and fleet renewal, everyone is on the Delta list flying Delta equipment. The good part of this model is that folks bid into openings, mostly when they choose and when their seniority can hold it. In the ASA / Comair proposal, we wrote a DOH zipper for the regional jockeys and a staple on the bottom of the Delta list. Ten years later there is a squabble about whether or not this existed. Regardless, this model seems like it would work well in an instance where there was no overlap in equipment (which is by design in our scope language). I like the concept, but as Sailingfun said, THEY won't like it one bit! And by THEY, I mean their most senior, the ones who have already been turned down at every Major and are lifers there. That's the problem, how do we get THEM to agree to it? I remember some of the most senior Com Air guys spewing things like, "I'll be able to hold 767 Captain!" at that time. Yeah...right. |
Originally Posted by cni187
(Post 1165399)
That's a tragic sight. That was my favorite plane as a kid.
You can probably get that one pretty cheap... :D |
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