But, as we just saw, a panel of 3 arbitrators did put some light twin pilots (DAL777's) in front of some Super Premium 747 pilots...so...?

Any time you go to arbitration, all bets are off. What might make perfect sense to you and me, might seem 'unfair' to them. So, be carefull what you ask for, it could blow up in your face. Personaly, I want to see our present restrictions on RJ's enforced, with zero additional 76 seaters, and zero additional JV's, or Code Shares with Alaska, etc.

I'm still trying to figure out how we are going to 'recapture' a whole fleet of 255, 76 seaters...without also risking a SLI arbitration, that might put some of them into a 767.

If instead, we 'hold the line' and let them die on the vine as fuel prices go up, then we may need to buy a Mainline 100 seater (717's?) and HIRE some pilots, out of the RJ's, who would have to be interviewed, screened, etc.

Just so you know, I voted NO to every one of our contracts that increased our outsourced flying. I lost my first mainline Capt. seat when DAL parked it's DC9's and gave that bidsheet to Com Air and ASA, and I went back to F/O for the next 7 years because of it.

So even though today, with over 26 years behind me, I am somewhat immune to the effects of continued narrow body outsourcing, I can still 'feel the burn', and have always been against putting the Delta name on any jets...NOT flown by Delta Pilots, be they RJ's, Alaska's, or Air France's. The continued outsourcing our Widebody, International flying still affects all of us, all the way down the list.

I concur. Compass would have been the only exception IMO. All seats already had 100% flowbacks in furlough. Also, highly experienced aviators hired by NWA without 15 years longevity. Plus an excellent working relationship between groups. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed.

Now, let's get the flying back to mainline and hire qualified pilots to do the flying. If it's DCI pilots great! If it's military pilots great! Give them all a shot!

A staple with stipulations is a can of worms!

Yeah, I know. Those hot heads can be a real problem:


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Carl

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Carl

I agree with what you are saying, and that really was not the point of my post. I am not trying to denigrate anyone. If I had left out the mil pilot part though, would the point be different?

DALPA has to get a handle on their/our core business. That starts with scope.

I disagree, and so does this reporter.

One standard for airline safety hasn't arrived yet, hearing told - Chicago Tribune

"The last six fatal commercial airline accidents involved regional airlines, which account for about 53 percent of the nation's commercial flights,'' Dillingham said. "As a result, Congress, the media and the flying public have raised concerns about the extent that there is 'one level of safety' across the entire airline industry.''

Experience and quality matter.

Now now. If I were going to do that, you'd all come with me... like you guys normally do! :D

Needed more background research before I posted.

I don't agree with you here ACL.

I think talk of a grand staple is a superficially attractive course of action but it ignores a few important issues, IMHO.

This proposed solution assumes the true cause of the pay disparity between mainline and DCI is the organizational structure of the arrangement. While that is certainly part of the issue, the other (and I would argue more important) part is simple economics. During the DCI explosion, with the 250 hour requirement, our profession was inundated with an oversupply of airline pilots. Even if we brought all DCI flying in house at a C2K quality pay scale, lacking more stringent barriers to entry to the career, how long do you think it would be before another SWA, Jetblue, etc. started competing on our routes with much lower pilot costs? (No, I don't believe that once mass retirements start in 5 years that airlines won't be able to find a way around the increased flight time requirements).

Whether it's from DCI arrangements or competing airlines, the real enemy of a professional pilot is a substantial number of pilots who are willing to fly the same passengers for less.

I think the real battle ground here is having meaningful criteria for selection and barriers to entry to this profession beyond the willingness to incur a large amount of student debt.

One other thing. We like to talk about needing higher pay, career expectations, etc. to make Delta attractive to high quality applicants in the upcoming pilot shortage. If we think a DCI staple is going to solve our pilot recruitment issues, my argument is it would make them worse.

Do you think any of the experienced RJ captains from outfits who don't get hooked up with this big staple are going to want to start over again behind thousands of twenty somethings? By stapling our DCI carriers you are going to make Delta attractive only to low experience (read: no PIC time) civilians.

Not many 35 year old 0-4s are going to be willing to start behind that mass of guys, either.

Exactly, The big point missed in all the talk about DCI is that you can only bring the flying back in house if you can do it within a few percentage points of the costs at the regional carriers. If you can't the entire process is doomed to fail and you lose not only those jobs but the feed. Its a fine line about where you can make the cost issue work. I think it was crossed with the E-170/175. The company would disagree. Regardless if your going to convince the company to bring that flying back you have to produce a solid economic plan on cost and how you will equal the current regionals. There is a reason why all the airline managements fight the unions tooth and nail on this issue and its not that they hate pilots. Its cost pure and simple.

I'm a 44-year old O-5 and I got an initial seniority number of 12,175. But I have retirement pay.

But you're right, no active duty O-4 without retirement could afford the pay cut coming to Delta now without a Reserve or Guard job.

Plus all those young guys getting staped? Not appealing. Let them go through the interview process just like everyone else.