AT/SW does not own the 717s. Boeing owns them. If SW gets rid of the 717 those aircraft will go back to Boeing before they go anywhere else.

I see no scenario where AT pilots would accompany the aircraft.

Heyas Xray,

While I do agree with you, in AT's case, their fragmentation language included "ghost transactions" such as what you describe.

Nu

I doubt the language covers aircraft that are being fazed out and replaced. Never heard of that kind of language ever in a contract. Aircraft are replaced all the time. SWA has maintained and sent a letter to its employees that there will be no furloughs as a result of upgrading the 717's to 737's at SWA or Airtran. Generally in order for a fragmentation clause to apply it requires the operation to be sold. If SWA decides to sublease the aircraft to Delta and also sell the gates in Atlanta and other airports they operate out of then I could see fragmentation as a issue. Nothing has even been hinted about such a transaction.

You guys are way overrating the damages because 18 aircraft were going to be delivered late. The difference between operating a 787 verses a 767 for a couple of years would not be huge. The gross weight upgrades were all we got.

I did 7 pallets last summer in about 4 hours with 2 helpers. It goes down really easy if you have the soil graded and prepped ahead of time, if not, better rent a roller to get it even afterwards - especially if you're kids will be running wild out there. If not, count on some twisted ankles. Btw - if it's not already pretty flat it is an art to grade with a bobcat. Make sure to leave yourself plenty of time for grading, as it makes the rest of it go smoother.

I'm sure you've done the research, but I got mine delivered by Supersod in the ATL area. Cheapest I found and it was great sod. I used Zenith Zoysia and it came back in perfect shape this spring. It makes a nice strong lawn that my circus (2 kids and 2 energetic bird dogs) haven't been able to destroy yet.

One final tip: make sure you don't lay it all out in straight lines. Try to vary your pattern up a little bit or you will end up with gaps (no matter how close you lay it) ie don't lay all the strips parallel to one another. It will look much nicer when you're done. Nothing like the satisfaction of saving a few grand and being able to say you did it yourself.

Now back to your regularly scheduled L&G rumormill :D

Nu, stated that the pilots were coming with the jets. He was flaming a little bit and edited it out.

To your response, it should be that way, but we can always assume the leases of LUV.

Correct.. if.... Iwo is available. if not.. I believe it IS an ETOPS flight. I do not have my notes in front of me, but I believe this is the case..

I had an edit that was lost because of the crappy internet at the Westin in LA.. :( Hey Buzz, don't ya'll know about the in-ter-net here in SoCal???

Anyway, he is correct that it is not an ETOPS flight unless Iwo is unavailable, then certain things have to occur since the nearest suitable is >60 mins away... but technically I believe he is correct..

Heyas ACL,

Not really flaming. A lot of the SWA guys are CONVINCED that's how it's going to go down. The AT guys who seem to know their contract really well also seem to think that is a distinct possibility.

Despite the fact they seem convinced it's going to happen that way, I edited it out because caused needless teethgrinding.

With that said, I don't think RA would touch that kind of deal. WAY too many problems when 319s could be had at similar prices with no hassle.

Nu

CORRECT! Two engine flight beyond 60 mins from a diversion airport is ETOPS. If IWO is down, you need ETOPS flight plan.

The deal has to be right for the 717s to come over... and the cost is too high right now. "Assumption" of those leases will come at a cost (and not to Delta) watch how it unfolds....