Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-06-2012, 05:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,953
Just opened my e-mail.
I am stunned!! Appalled!! This Negotiator Notepad is unbelievable. I can't imagine why they would put this out.
Are we back in bankruptcy? This is all increases in pilot productivity with nothing good attached to it but trivialities.
We've just lost maybe what? a thousand pilots with this disaster. More?
Raise the ALV? Lose jobs. Make July and August into 30 day months to pack that ALV into? Lose jobs. Bump the reserves to ALV+15? Lose jobs. Let reserves sell their X days for more guarantee? Lose jobs.
This is freaking horrible! If this stuff makes it into the contract we will not see another positive AE for a long long time. The 100 hour month *****s among us will love this contract. Makes up for the loss of trip parking and then some.
I will repeat -- I am stunned!
What the hell is Scrappy thinking putting this out? Could it be a cry for help? Is he warning us that things are going badly? The good things in it are trivial and infrequent. We can now call in sick for a toothache? Yippee!!
I suppose I will eat my words if there is a 50% pay raise attached but for now --- WOW. We are getting our butts kicked.
There better be some VERY serious coins coming along with all these work rule concessions.
Somebody tell me why I shouldn't panic. Please.
Did I read this wrong? Its all concessions to my mind. That can't be right.
When people filled out the survey was "work longer hours" the number 1 vote getter??
I'm just shocked at this. Sorry. Time for some single malt.
I am stunned!! Appalled!! This Negotiator Notepad is unbelievable. I can't imagine why they would put this out.
Are we back in bankruptcy? This is all increases in pilot productivity with nothing good attached to it but trivialities.
We've just lost maybe what? a thousand pilots with this disaster. More?
Raise the ALV? Lose jobs. Make July and August into 30 day months to pack that ALV into? Lose jobs. Bump the reserves to ALV+15? Lose jobs. Let reserves sell their X days for more guarantee? Lose jobs.
This is freaking horrible! If this stuff makes it into the contract we will not see another positive AE for a long long time. The 100 hour month *****s among us will love this contract. Makes up for the loss of trip parking and then some.
I will repeat -- I am stunned!
What the hell is Scrappy thinking putting this out? Could it be a cry for help? Is he warning us that things are going badly? The good things in it are trivial and infrequent. We can now call in sick for a toothache? Yippee!!
I suppose I will eat my words if there is a 50% pay raise attached but for now --- WOW. We are getting our butts kicked.
There better be some VERY serious coins coming along with all these work rule concessions.
Somebody tell me why I shouldn't panic. Please.
Did I read this wrong? Its all concessions to my mind. That can't be right.
When people filled out the survey was "work longer hours" the number 1 vote getter??
I'm just shocked at this. Sorry. Time for some single malt.
05-06-2012, 05:50 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
Here's some 'simple math':
ALV of 82, vs. ALV (82) + 15 = 18% less reserves required, but I didn't read it that way, I read it that you are still 'full' when you reach ALV, UNLESS you WANT to fly up to ALV + 15....?
And here's the math on the regular lines going up by 5 more hours.
ALV 82 (yearly average) + 5 hours = 6% less pilots required.
For every 1000 Captains, that's 60 less they need, so if there are 6,000 Captains today (?) that's 360 less they need tomorrow.
And that's only the regular lines, subtract more Capt. seats for the reserves who fly up to ALV+15.
You just paid for your "Raise"....again.
05-06-2012, 05:51 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
The negotiators appear to be operating in some other universe.
Why on Earth would we be giving major concessions to our work rules?
05-06-2012, 05:56 PM
Banned
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 136
Not hiring. Delta management says no pilot hiring in 2012 due to block hour decrease.
Anybody mind explaining this id appreciate it.
Anybody mind explaining this id appreciate it.
05-06-2012, 06:00 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 758
How about something requiring the company to oppose cabotage, too?
My God, that was a nauseating read. CREDITING 99 hours is one thing. FLYING 99 hours? Good thing 75% sick leave is gone. Guys will be calling in sick monthly.
NO NO NO NO NO. I don't even need to see section one to send this one back. If this was DALPA's attempt to get us pumped up and happy...FAIL.
My God, that was a nauseating read. CREDITING 99 hours is one thing. FLYING 99 hours? Good thing 75% sick leave is gone. Guys will be calling in sick monthly.
NO NO NO NO NO. I don't even need to see section one to send this one back. If this was DALPA's attempt to get us pumped up and happy...FAIL.
05-06-2012, 06:02 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
We're talking about Section 23.S.2.a.1 --
A reserve pilot will not be assigned a rotation that will cause his credit to exceed the ALV.
If they change that to ALV + 15 then they can assign a reserve a 15 hour trip if he is one minute short of the ALV. That is a big change. It will reduce staffing significantly.
05-06-2012, 06:05 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Tim-
We're talking about Section 23.S.2.a.1 --
A reserve pilot will not be assigned a rotation that will cause his credit to exceed the ALV.
If they change that to ALV + 15 then they can assign a reserve a 15 hour trip if he is one minute short of the ALV. That is a big change. It will reduce staffing significantly.
We're talking about Section 23.S.2.a.1 --
A reserve pilot will not be assigned a rotation that will cause his credit to exceed the ALV.
If they change that to ALV + 15 then they can assign a reserve a 15 hour trip if he is one minute short of the ALV. That is a big change. It will reduce staffing significantly.
"Max reserve changed from ALV to ALV + 15:00
§ Reserve “full” at his reserve guarantee"
Meaning you're done at guarantee unless you want to go higher. AMIRITE?
05-06-2012, 06:12 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: A330 Capt
Posts: 39
Here's some 'simple math':
And here's the math on the regular lines going up by 5 more hours.
ALV 82 (yearly average) + 5 hours = 6% less pilots required.
For every 1000 Captains, that's 60 less they need, so if there are 6,000 Captains today (?) that's 360 less they need tomorrow.
And here's the math on the regular lines going up by 5 more hours.
ALV 82 (yearly average) + 5 hours = 6% less pilots required.
For every 1000 Captains, that's 60 less they need, so if there are 6,000 Captains today (?) that's 360 less they need tomorrow.
While I certainly agree that this reduces the staffing requirement, the current agreement has a TLV of 74-79 hours. If the TLV range is increased (per the NN) to 75-80 hours, this is only a 1 hour increase at the top of the range. I believe that would be a decrease of a little over 1%, not 6%, if they ran right at the top of the TLV range.
dl
05-06-2012, 06:14 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,930
Clamp,
Thats the way I read it - you are "full" at the guarantee but can fly more if you want. That in itself is not too bad, what I am worried about is being 2 hours short of the ALV and being assigned a 15 hour trip - would this be a proffer, an assignment or does the guy have no choice? If you have no choice being full is kind of meaningless. We really need some more explanation.
I think guys are getting a little ahead of ourselves - this is only part of the package and cannot be evaluated until we see the whole package.
In general I am pretty much against any productivity increases and don't want guys flying 90-100 hours. At least we got rid of trip parking. I will also say, I would like to see some analysis on these productivity increases (concessions) and the NC's take on them.
Scoop
05-06-2012, 06:16 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
I'm not seeing why there's so much negativity on the TA'd sections. A 1 hour increase to ALV and TLV is marginal.
Increase rsv guarantee, good stuff. There's more ability to ***** yourself out on rsv, but not stuff they can do to you.
Biggie: Trip parking is DONE. That is huge.
Increase rsv guarantee, good stuff. There's more ability to ***** yourself out on rsv, but not stuff they can do to you.
Biggie: Trip parking is DONE. That is huge.
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