Do you really see all of the points you posted above as negatives?????

Denny

 

100%my same line of thought.

 

Really? - I see a cargo carrier and an airline where the pilots pay for their own training to get hired, which, as a result of that type of mentality among its pilots, has been profitable for 38 (?) straight years. Other than those, Delta is on top, despite making a trip through bankruptcy.

 

See below.

 

This language better be fixed. If we are already arguing about what it means then you KNOW that if it gets implemented our interpretation and the company's will be very different. We will have to grieve to get the definition nailed down and that will take w long time just to have a side letter done and we give up something for the company to acknowledge our interpretation of it.

 

If sailing DID get that from the company I would expect an investigation into HOW that information was leaked to management.

 

I'm typing on the iphone so excuse the pending mess...

I realize I am in the minority with raising reserve guarantee, but I'd rather see the rates increased rather than staffing decreased.

Say we went from a hard 70 hours to 80 hours. The company is not going to allow us to be full at 70 but get paid 80. They'll want us for the 80 hours. 10 more hours by 1 pilot means 1/8th of another not needed. In theory if we have 80 pilots in a category, get rid of 10 for the same amount of flying.

And not so in theory, I wonder if the 60 hour reserve month baseline in the pbs staffing formula will need to be moved higher?

Imho, an increase in pay for a reduction in staffing is never the way and i get nervous when I see the reserve guarantee monkied with or for people to demand a higher guarantee without thinking of the consequences.

As to the picking up x days. As a senior reserve guy this gives me a plan. Say we could do that today, what I would do is bid weeekends off so I don't work and then put most of my week days off at the end of the month in case I do ever come up for flying. Surely I'd come up for SC by then. Anyways, I'd plan on picking up 3 reserve days at the end, say a Fri-Sun that I had off. It'd probably be all I work so jackpot!!!

I could get a near 80 hours of pay on 15 hours of work.

I tell my buddy, he does the same, he tells three others and so on. All of a sudden covering trips with low reserve coverage magically is just happening now. No GSs needed, fewer WSs needed, fewer reserves may be needed.

I'd hope the TA has protections from ourselves because like trip parking nobody ever seems to think of the ramifications of their money making schemes.

 

loose lips sink ships.

or is it lose lips sink ships?

or do i hold my tongue and say my daddy works in the ship yard.

anyways, hasn't sailing been hanging out with us this whole time while dalpa folks have disappeared. that to say I don't think sailing is a current dalpa insider, just has a lot of ties. so my bet is someone is talking openly about the survey and sailing repeated it. so he's not leaking it, just reporting it.

and truth is... I bet he is right. I bet the survey average was below 30%. nobody in the past year from dalpa told the pilots to dream big, aim high, etc. Just "what are you willing to give up for that?"

that's my ASSumption.

 

I have no involvement with the company in any way shape or form and never have. I simply asked several of the reps about where the survey came in at. All were willing to give a basic idea without repeating hard numbers about what initial raise most pilots want.
In general airline pilots tend to have above average intelligence. When they fill out something as important as a contract survey they are thinking about their family and how best to provide the highest quality of life for them. They understand most of the forces at work in the industry and will try and construct survey items and numbers they feel are realistic and achievable given all the constraints in this industry. There are always a few who will put down bizarre things they demand but they are very few. The impression I got from my reps was that the contract surveys were for the most part well thought out and very rational. Our opener was crafted from those surveys. I guess this forum is now saying we should ignore the wishes of the pilot group especially if they don't match up with what a specific individuals wants. In many cases the surveys did not match up with what many reps wanted such as increasing hours but it was one of the biggest items in the survey. I have no doubt that is true because when I tried to explain on here how those type changes at Delta had a huge effect on advancement and jobs and everyone jumped all over the I need to work more train. Now when its in the surveys they deny anyone would say that.
The last classic line you hear is to simply state that everyone involved in the contract which is a fairly large group are all liars and its a big conspiracy where they forged all the results. Considering the most recent statements from DPA I guess that logic might resonate within a specific group. Since the vast majority of pilots that are working to get us a new contract will return to the line and work under that contract I find any such reasoning having zero merit.

 

Sailing,

First of all, I'm not try to condescend or accuse you of anything. Not sure if you were taking it that way.
I don't have an issue with where the survey results stood at 30%, truly I don't. (I don't agree with it, but I don't have a problem with it if it is accurate)

My issue is that if the LEC reps, or your contacts/buddies, are leaking that information to you, whose to say that information isn't being leaked/shared with the opposing side of the table???

This is my first section 6 negotiation, and I don't pretend to know it all from a demanding standpoint of undeserved entitlement.
I have a MAJOR problem with being told that the survey results are confidential, but some how allowed to become shared in piecemeal amounts at the most critical point in the negotiation.
It is the political equivalent of treason.

I don't like the rules being changed half way through the game.

I do appreciate the information you, and everyone, shares here, but sometimes I have to scratch my head and ask why is certain information being leaked.

Just saying....