If these numbers are correct, then what I'm led to conclude is that the "opportunity" is a management only "opportunity," one designed to hype a lot of hope for contractual improvement, and then shatter the expectations. Big loser - DALPA. Then we all get further into the swamp of disunity (I know Bar, I know) trying to decide just who it is that will represent us. How many times have we said (at least on the boards), that if DALPA brings us a loser, then their going down.

In other words, DALPA has a lot to lose if this TA is not stellar. But, for the record, I have no idea what it actually looks like, and I too will hold my judgement until I can take a GOOD LONG look at it.

One other thought that may have been drawn out by george or someone. Since this is not Sec. 6 our NC is not negotiating with any potential negative consequences for the company (leverage). They could try to push back, but there's nothing under their feet. Whatever this looks like, it will look that way from the company's own positive goals they think they draw from having it settled.

Hoping these numbers are bogus, and the company is not playing us to divide...

Hope your right

One Taco,

Lets be realistic. What has our MEC got to negotiate with? Delta management could use scope adjustments to trade RJ's with Bombardier and avoid lease penalties on unwanted 50 seaters. That is worth, at most, a few hundred million dollars.

Management can not just throw money out benevolently. They have to be able to justify their actions to the owners of our airline, as represented by the Board. Management is not responding to a strike threat. They are only trading money for money, allowing us to cooperate and benefit from re-fleeting.

Another likely benefit of escaping the RJ200 leases is money to acquire some mainline jets (possibly 717's).

Now I'm not saying we can't force management's hand, but they will end up with less money and so will we.

The thing that makes this a bit of a "no brainer" is its timing. Traditional Section 6 would just be getting warmed up by the time this deal expires. Why not take home the additional $80 to $120K and still nail management five years from now?

Bar, you have made some good posts in the past few days. This is not one of them. Taking crumbs sets a horrible precedent letting management know we will always take what is offered with hopes of getting something better down the road. Something worthwhile never really comes.

Jack,

What force do we have to compel a different outcome?

I'm not recommending a vote. Just pointing out this is EXACTLY what I said was coming down. It is a cost neutral deal.

Bar;

I have to assume that this line of posting is either playing a devil's advocate role or that your ALPA love is getting the best of you.

You ask what force, some are made of carbon.

Listen, RA is a smart guy. He sees the on time numbers getting better, good write ups in Fortune, etc and the brand getting good recognition. The ability to get your employees on board where others are failing shows good leadership.

Let him/management know that things could get ugly (no more constructive engagement, letter writing, smooth/on time operations) if he doesn't step up and spend a few more dollars to do this right. The pilots are due. Its time. No more games.

I believe RA wants to keep the happy MOJO flowing forward and in fact it will be one of the keys to success. If he loses the pilots along the way the whole operation can jump the tracks. A lot of pilots I have flow with the past several years have worked hard to do all they could to be on time and make the customers happy with the idea there is a payout coming. If that doesn't happen everybody stops caring.

The problem is, the guys on the NC/ALPA have potentially gotten so cozy with management and caught up in the whole "we are setting history getting a deal done so fast" that they may not be willing to say "Hey this is an insult. You are about to have over 10,000 pi$$ed off pilots that can have a very negative effect on the bottom line and the goodwill created up until this point....you can still make billions of dollars even if you pay your pilots a wage that will keep them content along with work rules/scope they can live with.

Bar,

I agree with a lot of the things you say, particularly on unity (hence the reference). I was just trying to point out the different nature of the NC's position. Their leverage is all positive in that the company is motivated to reach this TA based on the value it would bring them (whatever that is). You and I don't really know what value this might bring to them.

For all I know, they've got a check mate move planned out for this late summer and they just need to settle with us to refinance some debt, and the value would be accretive in the form of the competitive dominance they could enjoy henceforth. Whatever it is that they've got planned, and however much it's worth to them to execute that plan with a PWA in their back pocket, that is the only thing motivating this negotiation right now.

I agree, they don't negotiate benevolently. So our NC has positive leverage in this sense, but, obviously no ability to pressure negatively with work action.

But my other point was just that if our union is complicit with the company in selling the pilot group down the river by buying us off just to say we've have a few percentage points pay raises in the next 3 years, then management could also be seen to have a more aggressive motive as well, of accentuating our disunity by undermining DALPA. If such a deal, weak on scope, nominal pay raises passes the MEC, that's when I look at finding new representation - NOT if that's all the NC can produce. Because, we have no negative leverage.

The NC has done their job. I appreciate their service. I look forward to reading the full TA. What the MEC does will determine for me how to judge DALPA.

We shall see. I don't believe these numbers yet - and I want to see the TA for myself. This is all hypothetical based on the 4 8 3 3 numbers rumored. This doesn't even speak about scope, which I was very clear about in the survey I did. Just conjecture. :)


= a whole 'nuther level!
+ conjecture
rumors

Great Post!

Personally I'd be very surprised if the NC happily agreed to a raise that small in such a short time. The rumors were that they hadn't even discussed pay until a couple of days ago, right? Would they really only spend a day or two on it if the company produced such a lowball offer? I don't know a single person who put numbers that low in their survey, so I think the average must have been higher than that.

Any chance they will release the survey results along with the TA?