Bucking Bar

No kidding ... and you would think that scenario would have been an "emphasis item" in training of late.

In our fleet we had some high altitude upsets in our last profile. They were good training, IMHO. Typically the right answer is to go 2 - 4,000 feet lower, although that was not the answer the IP was necessarily looking for.

Bucking Bar

Sailing,

I'll buy coffee if anyone wants to come down and support their Reps in open session on Monday.

This TA apparently isn't getting instant "approve this thing by acclimation" treatment, which tells me there are a couple of NO Votes. That's a good thing, indicating democracy is working. The bad news is that there are obvious indications of problems with this agreement.

If I can wrestle the family to the Delta event today, I may try to corner Mr. Anderson for 10 seconds and ask tangential questions with regard to Section 1.

The fact Slowplay and Alpha aren't on the web boards bonking my head means they are busy bonking the no votes this week. The intense lobbying effort in the name of "unity" is worrying. AirTran's example is being used to convince pilot reps to send this out so the membership can vote on ... anything. (would the NWA example pre JPWA be the same?)

Can / would our MEC send this out with a split vote and no recommendation? I would prefer that to the typical cram down model.

Bucking Bar

Anyone attending Atlanta's Block Party today?

Anyone attending the open session of the MEC meeting on Monday?

brakechatter

No on the block party.


Yes on the meeting, if they have not already approved it. I am expecting a call from one of my reps today or tomorrow when he gets the chance.

KC10 FATboy

How do two pilots inadvertently zoom climb at 5700' per minute while in cruise and NOBODY notices? Seriously, something must be wrong with the Airbus design or the pilots that get chosen to fly for Air France are seriously inept!

johnso29

KC10,

I'm thinking it's the AF pilots. Notice how these incidents are limited to AF? Delta had a 330 experience the exact same pitot icing incident as AF 447, and they came out if it no problem. I'm fairly confident it happened before AF 447 too. I have a small amount of 320 time(around 2100 hours)and there is no way one shoudn't feel a climb. This is a lack of airmanship.

sailingfun

Airmanship is the problem. Airbus made a big point in their development that they intended to design a aircraft that did not require airmanship. Sadly it has not worked out quite like they planned. We have also watched as most airlines eliminate basic flying skills from training. If you don't require those skills you open the profession up to a larger group and can then lower wages. What does it say when a pilot at a major airline is not comfortable when cleared for the visual on downwind in a 757 flying a standard visual pattern and instead has to fly out to the OM before turning back into the field. They are not even comfortable with their own skills to fly the aircraft. When the chips are down and things go very bad it will not be a matter of trying to fall back on old skills, there will be no old skills to use and the result can be predicted in advance. More and more accidents are along these lines. Many pilots today could not pass a sim check from 25 years ago. The solution is make the check rides easier and easier. That falls back on management desire to expand the pool of pilots to keep wages low.

forgot to bid

No, we got fried to death on the black tarmac last year.

But it looks like today should be a lot cooler than last though, still, we'll be at the pool.

forgot to bid

Sailings raising questions I didn't know to raise. Chairperson, I yield a remainder of my time to Sailingfun.

Although, what's up with the "tweaking" talk? Is that legit? Can they tweak after a TA if it's this early? If so, would that be a reason to creep this on the dl? <-- children of the 90s won't like that song popping in their heads.

johnso29

I agree it's lack of airmanship. More and more it seems we are shifting towards teaching to fly the automation, rather then the aircraft. Often jumpseating up front on Pinnacle/Mesaba, I see the aircraft flown via autopilot until 200-500 ft AGL. Even Delta limits our abilities. I find it insulting that Delta limits a First Officer's takeoff to 1600 RVR. I hope they have more confidence in their FO's.