Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,568
Question. Due to a VD award on the last AE I have to rebid my vacation. Is there a way to see what weeks are available? When I go into Icrew all it shows are the start date and selection #, not weeks available.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 7ER Capt
Posts: 461
Didn't make the block party, but ran the scholarship 5k with 7:45 pace. Not to shabby for a 55 year old fart!
Airmanship is the problem. Airbus made a big point in their development that they intended to design a aircraft that did not require airmanship. Sadly it has not worked out quite like they planned. We have also watched as most airlines eliminate basic flying skills from training. If you don't require those skills you open the profession up to a larger group and can then lower wages. What does it say when a pilot at a major airline is not comfortable when cleared for the visual on downwind in a 757 flying a standard visual pattern and instead has to fly out to the OM before turning back into the field. They are not even comfortable with their own skills to fly the aircraft. When the chips are down and things go very bad it will not be a matter of trying to fall back on old skills, there will be no old skills to use and the result can be predicted in advance. More and more accidents are along these lines. Many pilots today could not pass a sim check from 25 years ago. The solution is make the check rides easier and easier. That falls back on management desire to expand the pool of pilots to keep wages low.
What does it say when a pilot at a major airline is not comfortable when cleared for the visual on downwind in a 757 flying a standard visual pattern and instead has to fly out to the OM before turning back into the field. They are not even comfortable with their own skills to fly the aircraft.
We can't deny that it's there for good reason for the criteria so everyone seemingly abides by it, especially knowing FOQA is watching us. So given the issues with close in visuals we now see the command to move towards OM visuals. So that degrades those visual skills. Tack on that no-fault-go-around policy seems to be adhered to by the company and the FAA but not necessarily the guy next to you and frankly, rightfully so. Thus you can see how there is less of a desire to "experiment" and therein not refine one's visual skills. Add on the severe consequences of an altitude bust and you can see why guys out of self preservation don't hand fly more and are not keen on the other guy hand flying more because they're not in the mood to baby sit them either.
Like I said, I don't have a solution that I think the company or FAA would buy off on, so that's just an observation of some of the things working against keeping one's basic airmanship skills current.
Now, I think we could be aided overall in basic flying skills if imho: Like I said, I don't have a solution that I think the company or FAA would buy off on, so that's just an observation of some of the things working against keeping one's basic airmanship skills current.
- In recurrent we would run an MEL that says no FMS, no AP, no FD (although that might not be allowed), and no autothrottles. Which I know the DC-9 guys say that's life out of ATL every day for them, but for the rest of us, it'd honestly be great thing to have hanging over ours and our instructors heads leading up to a LOFT.
- We also heard "if in doubt click off the AP" as much as we hear "VNAV to the marker! VNAV to the marker!" IMO I think we should have a no-fault-FMS-screw-up policy that says "the FMS can't keep up or is screwed up, probably my fault, don't care, AP is coming off and don't try to fix the FMS, thanks..."
That's all I can think of to add to your great post.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 05-19-2012 at 11:53 AM.
On those rare occasions when the airplane starts to do something I didn't intend, I kick off the AP and fly it like the knuckle-dragging Herc guy I am. Nobody has ever hassled me about doing this.
Think of it as company/industry wide encouragement to do the wise thing.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 05-19-2012 at 12:36 PM.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
I was not advocating a unstable approach. We have a published VFR pattern. Many however refuse to fly it and take the aircraft out to beyond the marker. When tower calls you 3 times to remind you that your cleared for the visual that is a hint.
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
We still get paid by the minute, right?
Maybe they are 'short' for the month!
That was a joke, I do agree with your sentiments SF. But here's the problem. We are told to use all the automation, as much as possible, Vnav to the OM, etc. Flying is (or should be!) a eye-hand type skill, skills we all learned early on, and got to use all the time in the 727/DC9/DC8, what have you.
But to keep that skill, you have to PRACTICE once in a while. Just like a golf swing or racing catamarans, the more you practice, the better you get. But since the Airbus philosophy has taken 'hand flying' out of the realm of normal ops, and with that same mindset creeping into our Boeing training programs (757/767/777) well, in the Sim, they want to see you use the automation, all the time....so...when do you get to practice?
I still go out and fly a little taildragger, just to keep myself sharp, because I don't even get one landing per month on the 777. Thank God I have about a zillion landings in the 757/767 to fall back on, all but a couple Cat 3's in 12 years on it were hand flown, and they are similar enough to the 777 that old 757 habbits work well there. But for someone coming off of nothing but glass and magic, well, what do they have to fall back on when the magic quits, or confuses them?
In BOTH Air France incidents...it sounds like these guys have no idea what to do when the magic quits! I fear we are breeding a similar pilot, eventually, with our "automation all the time" policy. I agree we should be doing a lot more hand flying, on the line and in the sim, and more partial panel work in the sim.
Maybe they are 'short' for the month!
That was a joke, I do agree with your sentiments SF. But here's the problem. We are told to use all the automation, as much as possible, Vnav to the OM, etc. Flying is (or should be!) a eye-hand type skill, skills we all learned early on, and got to use all the time in the 727/DC9/DC8, what have you.
But to keep that skill, you have to PRACTICE once in a while. Just like a golf swing or racing catamarans, the more you practice, the better you get. But since the Airbus philosophy has taken 'hand flying' out of the realm of normal ops, and with that same mindset creeping into our Boeing training programs (757/767/777) well, in the Sim, they want to see you use the automation, all the time....so...when do you get to practice?
I still go out and fly a little taildragger, just to keep myself sharp, because I don't even get one landing per month on the 777. Thank God I have about a zillion landings in the 757/767 to fall back on, all but a couple Cat 3's in 12 years on it were hand flown, and they are similar enough to the 777 that old 757 habbits work well there. But for someone coming off of nothing but glass and magic, well, what do they have to fall back on when the magic quits, or confuses them?
In BOTH Air France incidents...it sounds like these guys have no idea what to do when the magic quits! I fear we are breeding a similar pilot, eventually, with our "automation all the time" policy. I agree we should be doing a lot more hand flying, on the line and in the sim, and more partial panel work in the sim.
Last edited by Timbo; 05-19-2012 at 02:15 PM.
I think, it is possible to not "develop" airmanship at the airline. Instead, we just apply the procedures.
In general, we fly a sid to a visual ILS backup. Its a tragedy to hear that someone might be a little befuddled by a visual pattern.
We do our thing in the sim, but those are generally rote responses to "scenarios."
This isn't the military where a good bit of the flying is pushing the pilot...hard. This job is boring and its our job to keep it that way. If a pilot comes to the airline withour flying skills and airmanship, this is not the place to learn it and the sim is not the tool where it can be taught either, just reviewed.
And then if tried and they become JAX rwy 25 then the the policy changes or recommendation becomes don't turn inside the OM but then you're never practiced and they end up flying high, wide and long which as you correctly state is an embarassment if not a traffic problem.
Like I said, I have no solution and I don't know if a company would ever change to a policy of encouraging more hand flying even though they should.
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