Management will park more of the existing mainline fleet. The snapshot for ratios doesn't occur for a couple years. Everything in this new proposal that can be exploited will be. The above math equation will go lurching off into left field.

These are straight seats regardless of ratios. The ratios apply to shrinking mainline narrow b's. What are you talking about?

05-23-2012 | 03:14 PM

#100852

rvr350

Line Holder

Joined: Jan 2007

Posts: 829

Likes: 10

From: metal tube operator

Quote:

Originally Posted by newKnow

I've heard from several people that things were/are on fire in the ATL crewroom this afternoon...... (and not in a good way.)

I salute the courage and time for the reps to stand around and answer, i mean sell, this TA in a angry crewroom.

05-23-2012 | 03:17 PM

#100853

More Bacon

Banned

Joined: Jan 2012

Posts: 623

Likes: 0

From: DAL

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvr350

I salute the courage and time for the reps to stand around and answer, i mean sell, this TA in a angry crewroom.

I would have saluted their courage to vote "no" and respect our wishes as indicated in the survey.

Apparently they were more worried about the consequences from their ALPA overlords than they were about this "harmless" ass-chewing they're now getting from the constituents they sold out.

Last edited by More Bacon; 05-23-2012 at 03:35 PM.

05-23-2012 | 03:33 PM

#100854

DAL73n

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Dec 2009

Posts: 667

Likes: 0

From: 737n/FO

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

The biggest mistake anyone can make is to assume that management is your friend. We have made our pilot group into a business partner with management That is what constructive engagement is, it is not going to birthday parties and yucking it up in the corporate boardroom.

We have added value to Delta in the last five years and they have put value back into our pockets. We have compounded gains into our contract at a rate that vastly exceeds other pilot groups. If we stop adding value to the company, they will put us to the side and ignore us for as long as they can. Events of the last five years have shown that we can sit for years, in fact many years with nothing happening in old school Section 6.

If you are unsure about what happens when you no longer are a business partner look what happened to Mesa (Freedom). As soon as they got on the bad side of Delta they went Scarface on them, they ended up in bankruptcy.

Here are the returns (both pay and DC plan) per year since bankruptcy exit:

2008 - 5.3% (average, some higher some lower)
2009 - 5%
2010 - 5%
2011 - 5%
2012 - 4% + 4%(TA) = 8.1% compounded
2013 - 8.5% (TA)
2014 - 4% (TA)
2015 - 3% (TA)

Quick, one of you financial gurus do a compounded return on that and let me know what you come up with.

There's one problem with your numbers - most of us want an improved standard of living and if you take inflation into the equation then our standard of living has barely kept pace with inflation. Also, our 2008 starting point for those salaries is the worst in Delta history - even worse than 1996 (which was referred to after the fact as POS 96 and led the way to the C2K contract because everyone was so militant). Your point being that our 2008 starting point for our salaries was acceptable. I don't.

05-23-2012 | 03:38 PM

#100855

johnso29

Moderator

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 13,088

Likes: 0

From: B757/767

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy

Not only that, but we just gave them 300 pilot positions by gutting our already concessionary work rules. That is far more of a threat than the FTDT rules. Let them crew 9 hour US turns or EU flights and then go back to the gate and cancel on any taxi out delay and see how much they save.

Do you have facts to back up your claim on us giving up 300 positions? I haven't seen that released by the union.

05-23-2012 | 03:43 PM

#100856

DAL73n

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Dec 2009

Posts: 667

Likes: 0

From: 737n/FO

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

88 pilots on reserve will probably see a 30% or so raise.

We all admit that this does not meet our expectations that we filled out in the survey.

The difference day one is 7.2% give or take. One must ask if the reward is worth the risk for 140 million dollars. Just an honest question.

You must take the emotion out of this, look at it objectively and go from there.

Actually, everyone talks about restoration. How about another take on this whole thing. I went back and found Contract 96 rates (better known as POS 96 by everyone at DAL when I got hired (2000). As a point of note I looked up 73N CA and FO rates - $215.12 and 146.93. I don't remember DAL struggling with Pilot costs from Contract 96 and we're saying that by 2015 we will get back to May 1, 2000 rates and we're supposed to be happy. If some one tells me how to post the PDF I will or you only have to Google Delta Airlines Contract 96 rates to find the PDF - it is a document from the Delta MEC about Contract 96.

05-23-2012 | 03:44 PM

#100857

johnso29

Moderator

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 13,088

Likes: 0

From: B757/767

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

This is incorrect. The snapshot does NOT occur for a couple years. It happens quicker then that. I respect your right to vote NO, but please don't put out false info.

05-23-2012 | 03:45 PM

#100858

DAL73n

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Dec 2009

Posts: 667

Likes: 0

From: 737n/FO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg

Yes, current 3 day trips with an allnighter attached at the end will be worth 13:30 instead of 11 hours. That is an improvement for many 737 and 767 pilots.

Except for one big whole - the 4:30 doesn't apply if you report after 2200 and we already have a number of rotations that have a late report and you can't tell me they won't move some of the rotations with earlier reports to a later report to save a few bucks - can certainly see it.