Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-29-2012 | 06:35 PM
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From: blueJet
02-29-2012 | 06:48 PM
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From: 737 Left Seat
From a lurker and occasional poster-
Great discussion about pay and contract expectations.
One thing that I think we're losing sight of is that there are literally thousands of pilots that want jobs at Delta that are willing to work harder than we are for much less money.
The company's position is a direct result of that fact. It's simple economics. Deserve has got nothing to do with it.
One other thing. Delta has been hiring a good number of folks with zero PIC. Safety arguments aside, that strategy is going to have an impact on the pilot group. Those pilots have less opportunity to gain employment elsewhere and I believe their votes may reflect that.
Tsquare's statements about youth entitlement in this case are dead on, IMHO. The pilots in the top half of the seniority list are a product of a much more selective process than us youngsters.
It's much harder to get an electrician's apprenticeship than to gain admission to a puppy mill. If those flight hour requirements don't get implemented and enforced, what used to be a profession will have been irreversibly changed to more of a trade.
Great discussion about pay and contract expectations.
One thing that I think we're losing sight of is that there are literally thousands of pilots that want jobs at Delta that are willing to work harder than we are for much less money.
The company's position is a direct result of that fact. It's simple economics. Deserve has got nothing to do with it.
One other thing. Delta has been hiring a good number of folks with zero PIC. Safety arguments aside, that strategy is going to have an impact on the pilot group. Those pilots have less opportunity to gain employment elsewhere and I believe their votes may reflect that.
Tsquare's statements about youth entitlement in this case are dead on, IMHO. The pilots in the top half of the seniority list are a product of a much more selective process than us youngsters.
It's much harder to get an electrician's apprenticeship than to gain admission to a puppy mill. If those flight hour requirements don't get implemented and enforced, what used to be a profession will have been irreversibly changed to more of a trade.
Last edited by LuvJockey; 02-29-2012 at 07:13 PM.
02-29-2012 | 06:55 PM
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From: 737 Left Seat
On a truly anonymous and free forum, you would be referred to as what you are.
Last edited by LuvJockey; 02-29-2012 at 07:19 PM.
02-29-2012 | 06:57 PM
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From: A big one that looks like a little one
Sadly, if 11,000 pilots emailed their respective LEC reps and demanded a copy of the opener, which would be kept private by us, our expectations would be managed, and we'd be told no, because we can't be trusted. If DPA were to release their opener, and the company responded aggressively with "our best counter offer is X, take it or leave it" (which I strongly suspect they would do), then in another form our expectations would be managed, because we can't be trusted. This isn't a battle we should expend any effort on. With good data and a strong turn out the ALPA bean counters will draft an opener most likely 1.0 standard deviations above the mean. And as long as we were vocal during elections of negotiators then certainly the rest of our opener is a known quantity. You wouldn't elect a Democrat to ban abortions would you? So did we elect negotiators who wouldn't tirelessly negotiate a better section 1 for us? Oooops.
Does anyone know why we don't have a proactive and thriving P2P committee here? It's because most MECs feel that the feedback is unproductive and from the vocal minority (which is incorrect). But they worked so hard for their positions of authority in ALPA. I guess we have to trust them. Either that or recall them. Which as long as you have a candidate to replace them with is a transparent and successful process. Everyone knows what P2P is, right?
I hope we're all working to unify and motivate the silent majority. Because ALPA sure isn't. And neither is DPA. Then again - until it came recall time, it wouldn't do any good.
Signed,
Realistic Expectations
Does anyone know why we don't have a proactive and thriving P2P committee here? It's because most MECs feel that the feedback is unproductive and from the vocal minority (which is incorrect). But they worked so hard for their positions of authority in ALPA. I guess we have to trust them. Either that or recall them. Which as long as you have a candidate to replace them with is a transparent and successful process. Everyone knows what P2P is, right?
I hope we're all working to unify and motivate the silent majority. Because ALPA sure isn't. And neither is DPA. Then again - until it came recall time, it wouldn't do any good.
Signed,
Realistic Expectations
02-29-2012 | 06:58 PM
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Has anyone noticed that sailing and others don't respond to your post that make great points and are hard to rebuttal. They only come back on stuff they can spin in their favor.
02-29-2012 | 07:04 PM
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From: Space Shuttle PIC
Sadly, if 11,000 pilots emailed their respective LEC reps and demanded a copy of the opener, which would be kept private by us, our expectations would be managed, and we'd be told no, because we can't be trusted. If DPA were to release their opener, and the company responded aggressively with "our best counter offer is X, take it or leave it" (which I strongly suspect they would do), then in another form our expectations would be managed, because we can't be trusted. This isn't a battle we should expend any effort on. With good data and a strong turn out the ALPA bean counters will draft an opener most likely 1.0 standard deviations above the mean. And as long as we were vocal during elections of negotiators then certainly the rest of our opener is a known quantity. You wouldn't elect a Democrat to ban abortions would you? So did we elect negotiators who wouldn't tirelessly negotiate a better section 1 for us? Oooops.
Does anyone know why we don't have a proactive and thriving P2P committee
here? It's because most MECs feel that the feedback is unproductive and from the vocal minority (which is incorrect). But they worked so hard for their positions of authority in ALPA. I guess we have to trust them. Either that or recall them. Which as long as you have a candidate to replace them with is a transparent and successful process. Everyone knows what P2P is, right?
I hope we're all working to unify and motivate the silent majority. Because ALPA sure isn't. And neither is DPA. Then again - until it came recall time, it wouldn't do any good.
Signed,
Realistic Expectations
Does anyone know why we don't have a proactive and thriving P2P committee
here? It's because most MECs feel that the feedback is unproductive and from the vocal minority (which is incorrect). But they worked so hard for their positions of authority in ALPA. I guess we have to trust them. Either that or recall them. Which as long as you have a candidate to replace them with is a transparent and successful process. Everyone knows what P2P is, right?
I hope we're all working to unify and motivate the silent majority. Because ALPA sure isn't. And neither is DPA. Then again - until it came recall time, it wouldn't do any good.
Signed,
Realistic Expectations
Realistic expectations? Look at the profits and bag fees. Look at pre BK wages that are back for most other groups, including management. Before you give in, please get informed.
02-29-2012 | 07:05 PM
Da Hudge
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From: Poodle Whisperer
02-29-2012 | 07:08 PM
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From: Space Shuttle PIC
It's called the Spin Zone. Remember, if they manage to bring down your expectations, then it will be easier for them to say "look we got you what we promised......" .(not really what you deserve).....they are looking for the least path of resistance, on all sides.
02-29-2012 | 07:15 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
This must be the latest talking point from DALPA about why they can't show us our own opener. The first talking point was from the Council 20 chairman where his rationale was: "that would be like showing your hand in poker." Evidently, I wasn't the only one that thought it one of the worst attempts at justification I'd ever heard, and now the new defense is to characterize keeping your own members in the loop as "negotiating in public". Ridiculous.
Carl
02-29-2012 | 07:19 PM
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From: MSP7ERB
The average age of our new hire class was about 33 years old. I wouldn't call it youth entitlement...I was 43 when I was hired. My last W-2 from the USAF was about $125,000. That first year of Delta pay was quite a transition.
If the company wants the highest qualified candidates applying, then they'll have to compensate them accordingly. These pilots have a high expectation for C2012...if it fails to deliver, then they may look elsewhere for employment.
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