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Old 02-29-2012, 05:35 PM
  #90831  
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Originally Posted by dtwairbus320 View Post
**** the RLA! Laws can change. We can make it happen. If we all had balls, and I mean collectively all pilots, when it got down to the wire we would use our toes and stop the entire operation. Are they going to throw us all in jail?
July 19, 2003
American waives rest of fine
Pilots union's had still owed $26 million from penalty for 1999 sickout
07/19/2003
By ERIC TORBENSON / The Dallas Morning News

American Airlines Inc. said Friday it has forgiven $26 million of the $45.5 million fine levied against the Allied Pilots Association after its members conducted a 1999 sickout.
The amount represents what the APA still owed the carrier. A federal judge imposed the fine as punishment for the sickout.

The airline waived the $26 million during concessions talks this spring that saved the airline from bankruptcy. But the move wasn't made public until Friday, when American's parent company, AMR Corp., filed its quarterly Securities and Exchange Commission report.
The APA – which agreed to $660 million in annual pay and benefits cuts in April – told its 12,000 members about the fine in the spring. American spokesman Todd Burke acknowledged the move Friday but wouldn't comment further.
The pilots launched the sickout to protest American's handling of the December 1998 acquisition of Reno Air. They were upset about how the airline integrated Reno pilots into the American seniority list.
The 12-day sickout cost the carrier $200 million to $225 million.
American sued the pilots union, alleging it had violated the Railway Labor Act, which also applies to the aviation industry. Under the law, neither management nor unions are allowed to take "job actions" outside of contract talks – and only then if the parties are released from negotiations.
U.S. District Court Judge Joe Kendall of Dallas found the union and its officers in contempt because the pilots didn't comply with a back-to- work order and assessed the $45.5 million fine.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:36 PM
  #90832  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
Its a great post until you read the RLA.
I am well aware of the RLA. RLA is outdated and a definite slap in our collective faces. Few months ago CAPA (Coalition of Airline Pilots), started a national campaign to amend the RLA. CAPA was able to schedule meetings at the national level to amend the RLA and section 1113C of the bankruptcy code. ALPA never joined the fight for reasons unknown. I called and wrote my reps several times and told them that this should be a very high priority item. But as usual, nothing got done.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:41 PM
  #90833  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver View Post
"Being defeated is often only a temporary condition.
Giving up is what makes it permanent."
That is a great quote.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:43 PM
  #90834  
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Originally Posted by dtwairbus320 View Post
**** the RLA! Laws can change. We can make it happen. If we all had balls, and I mean collectively all pilots, when it got down to the wire we would use our toes and stop the entire operation. Are they going to throw us all in jail?
Our union president said, about 13 months ago, that crewpass was his #1 priority. We all see how that made a difference.

It is my belief that decoupling airlines from the RLA should be his first priority.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:44 PM
  #90835  
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Originally Posted by dtwairbus320 View Post
**** the RLA! Laws can change. We can make it happen. If we all had balls, and I mean collectively all pilots, when it got down to the wire we would use our toes and stop the entire operation. Are they going to throw us all in jail?
Exactly man... I would gladly go to jail for that. I can't strike or go on a work action from my job at a private company! So much living in a free country, free from government control/manipulation!! It's high time to get rid of RLA. The airline managements have benefited way too long with this, unfairly and at our expense.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:44 PM
  #90836  
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Originally Posted by Thrust Normal View Post
First of all I said nothing of what I expect (I don't say that with animosity, I just didn't state it). I just grow tired of the same old catch phrases that get repeated and repeated. I highly doubt any manager, of any power, really cares what we say on here. Sometimes I hardly care. And also "manage our expectations". I think we're all on sufficient intelligence to think on our own. I always find it ironic the people accusing everyone else of "managine expectations" is the same one trying to push their own agenda. That's all

Anger makes a dull man witty, but keeps him poor.
I'm sorry, but I saw with my own eyes LEC members in "the upper Midwest" lounge Q&A session wince and shake their heads 8 months ago when asked if we can expect a large raise. This was before the survey. That is called "managing expectations.". Those guys are supposed to take our wants to the negotiators, and then THEY are supposed to negotiate. That is how it is supposed to work. That is why people are angry and some push new bargaining units.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:52 PM
  #90837  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
Thats not what was reflected in the contract surveys.
Why again wasn't KLM and AF included in the contract comparisons? I was told DALPA needed help with the Translation. Talk about "Lost in Translation.". They couldn't wait an extra week and hired someone? The KLM pilots generally speak great English, they could have done it. They do the same stuff we do across the Atlantic. Yes, there are some difference socially like mandatory vacation and healthcare, but denote that at the bottom. Really, there is no excuse. When airlines are left out, it stil seems to point at managing expectations.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:04 PM
  #90838  
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Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
Why again wasn't KLM and AF included in the contract comparisons? I was told DALPA needed help with the Translation. Talk about "Lost in Translation.". They couldn't wait an extra week and hired someone? The KLM pilots generally speak great English, they could have done it. They do the same stuff we do across the Atlantic. Yes, there are some difference socially like mandatory vacation and healthcare, but denote that at the bottom. Really, there is no excuse. When airlines are left out, it stil seems to point at managing expectations.
I wonder if there is a European equivalent to airlinepilotforums and if so, would they share some data? Anyone know?
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:19 PM
  #90839  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
All you have to do is talk to your reps. They are not going to give details but they will give you a general idea. A survey online by DPA has no validity to what pilots actually put in the real survey they knew was going to be used to construct a opener.
The DPA survey was valid in my case - I stated 30% up front in both the DPA survey and the DALPA survey, or my vote will be NO. The DPA Survey showed a median 37% increase.

If the company is committed to "industry standard" pay then the executives should set the example. Standard airline CEO pay seems to be about $3M annually.

2009 Airline CEO Compensation (AP data):-

1.*** Richard H. Anderson, Delta Air Lines – $8.4 million
2.*** Gerard J. Arpey, American Airlines – $4.7 million
3.*** William S. Ayer, Alaska Airlines – $4.3 million
4.*** Glenn F. Tilton, United Airlines – $3.9 million
5.** *Lawrence W. Kellner – former CEO, Continental Airlines – $3.3 million
****** *(Jeffery A. Smisek – current CEO, Continental Airlines – $0.0)
6.*** Douglas Parker, US Airways – $2.6 million
7.*** Robert L. Fornaro, Airtran Airways – $2.0 million
8.*** Mark B. Dunkerley, Hawaiian Airlines – $1.8 million
9.*** Gary C. Kelly,*Southwest Airlines – $1.6 million**
10.**David Barger, Jetblue Airways – $1.5 million

Now if you're going to make the argument that great talent costs more, then the same is true of the pilot group.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:20 PM
  #90840  
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Originally Posted by vprMatrix View Post
Yea, but when it comes to RJs I bet that same ALPA rep will tell you that it's the ASMs not the block hours that matter.
Someone just won a chicken dinner.
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