No, we factored some would tip 10%, some 15% and some 20%. Hit a little turbulence and land in some gusty winds and I bet you hit 20% a lot more then you think. We actually had a bout with severe turbies a few days ago that lasted for awhile. When we landed, I had a lady seek me out and give me a hug. She'd have been good for at least 20%.

 

All you have to do is talk to your reps. They are not going to give details but they will give you a general idea. A survey online by DPA has no validity to what pilots actually put in the real survey they knew was going to be used to construct a opener. Most pilots are very aware that if you over reach under the RLA you end up iced long term. There is a time value to a contract. The Dalpa survey unlike the DPA survey has real implications and pilots who are concerned about maximizing their income and quality of life for themselves and their families put a lot of thought into what they felt was achievable. I told my reps what I had put in the survey and asked how what I put down compared with others. I was told I was right at the mean in the surveys. My upfront raise was 20 percent with ongoing 5 percent raises over the life of a 4 year contract. Total 40. I wanted a lot on the other items and I was told I asked more then most in those areas. My emphasis areas were increasing copilot pay to a 15 year scale taking the max up to 75 percent of CA pay. Sick leave back to the pre 1113 program, DC up to 18 percent, reserve pay 5 hours below ALV with a 70 hour minimum, Vacation and training pay and credit for line construction and actual pay with increases to 4 hours per day for both. Section 1 gross weight maximum reduced to pre LOA 46 weight with current contracts sunsetted. 6th week of vacation restored. Distributed training pays 1 for 1.
I tried to figure a value for all I ask for and am guessing it is worth about 3/4 of a billion per year by the end of the contract. Thats about half the cost of a true restoration contract. Some items such a pay and vacation becoming pay and credit would have to be phased in because they will require several hundred more CA positions. I would give them a 2 year phase in on items like that.

 

Latest DC9 rumor is staying until summer of 2013 now for those that are interested.

 

Oh, so all trust, no verify. Got it.

 

You are absolutely right about that but I don't think Delta paying you or I what we're worth is going to raise the ticket prices. Look how much Delta has made. They can afford to cough it back up to us and settle for a more modest profit. If I were management, when these annual reports come out with these astronomical profits, I would think to myself "Oh ****, now the pilots are going to want their money back." But hardly any of us seem to think that way. We just get excited about our profit sharing checks and fail to realize all the other employee groups are getting their profit sharing checks too. Guess which labor group allowed them to have their's?

My point was also meant to be more broad. As an entire profession we must demand the highest compensation equal to our level of expertise. If we were truly a unionized workforce in the true sense of the word, every pilot at every airline would be making the same amount based on the job. Just like the Pipefitters and these wages would be kept high. There would be no pay comparisons among airlines. We would all be pilots payed according to our union's schedule. If the airline can't afford to pay us what we are worth, then they don't belong in the airline business.

NA

 

Here is a question... if the company doesn't put out it's opener, assuming that opener isn't a poke in the eye, why would we negotiate in public with our own demands?

I recently had an interesting discussion with a rep about this, and about how we put out our C2K opener. He reminded me we put out ours only after the company put up something obscene and ridiculous.

As I recall, we made $1.8 billion in 2008, the most for any airline ever at that time, and the company's term-sheet looked ridiculous, and insulting. It galvanized the group, and resulted in a strong strike vote.

Personally, I was sure we would publish our opener. My reps are asking for input, but made a good point recently: if you're releasing it, you're generally trying to support your negotiating goals, make some sort of an impact. Not satisfy curiosity.

So let's say we put out what we want on day 1 of the amendable date.

Then what?

In effect, you've announced the end of constructive engagement, and told Moak to stick it, with his boot-licking attitude, and we're done talking. This is what we want, and we know we deserve it. We're going to do it the old fashion way.

Then what?

Then, nothing. Sound of crickets. Don't bother winding your watch, because this one is going to take a calendar. Like a Mayan calendar, where the world ends in 2012. We can then invite our friends at uCAL and LCC, and have ourselves a barbecue, compare notes. We'll need chicken, because it's cheaper, and maybe a few fourties. They still make Old Milwaukee?

I guess I do want to see the opener, but I also want to see it for a reason, and for some purpose. If it comes out immediately, it tells me the company isn't even close, and it tells me RA is playing defense. And defense under the RLA is the easiest game to play.

 

I agree 100% with this.
Sailing, I like to think I am pretty open minded and understand much of what goes on within a company. Although I disagree that you continually try and manage our expectations, this argument that whatever we get is what the other employees get is total BS.
I don't care what Richard and company say, it's their job to manage our expectations. It's also their job to keep cost low and using other employee groups as scapegoats is part of that game plan. Management is in control of controlling cost and each employee group is in control of maximizing their compensation. Just because the other groups are all non union is THEIR PROBLEM not ours!
Right now I'm disappointed that you are using managements own game plan/talking points against all of us....including yourself

 

Well put! Welcome to the forums.

 

Great post!

 

Do you believe your list of wants is achievable in this upcoming contract? If you want those things why do you spend so much time on these forums giving a multitude of reasons they wont be achievable?