Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Total BS. Management doesn't have to increase other employees salaries at all. It's strictly up to the whim of the company in it's sole discretion for these non-contract employees.

I know DAL management constantly uses this scam argument, but it's incomprehensible why you do. People like you are so devastating to a union.

Carl

Originally Posted by dtwairbus320

You are absolutely right about that but I don't think Delta paying you or I what we're worth is going to raise the ticket prices. Look how much Delta has made. They can afford to cough it back up to us and settle for a more modest profit. If I were management, when these annual reports come out with these astronomical profits, I would think to myself "Oh ****, now the pilots are going to want their money back." But hardly any of us seem to think that way. We just get excited about our profit sharing checks and fail to realize all the other employee groups are getting their profit sharing checks too. Guess which labor group allowed them to have their's?

My point was also meant to be more broad. As an entire profession we must demand the highest compensation equal to our level of expertise. If we were truly a unionized workforce in the true sense of the word, every pilot at every airline would be making the same amount based on the job. Just like the Pipefitters and these wages would be kept high. There would be no pay comparisons among airlines. We would all be pilots payed according to our union's schedule. If the airline can't afford to pay us what we are worth, then they don't belong in the airline business.

NA

Originally Posted by dtwairbus320

You are absolutely right about that but I don't think Delta paying you or I what we're worth is going to raise the ticket prices. Look how much Delta has made. They can afford to cough it back up to us and settle for a more modest profit. If I were management, when these annual reports come out with these astronomical profits, I would think to myself "Oh ****, now the pilots are going to want their money back." But hardly any of us seem to think that way. We just get excited about our profit sharing checks and fail to realize all the other employee groups are getting their profit sharing checks too. Guess which labor group allowed them to have their's?

My point was also meant to be more broad. As an entire profession we must demand the highest compensation equal to our level of expertise. If we were truly a unionized workforce in the true sense of the word, every pilot at every airline would be making the same amount based on the job. Just like the Pipefitters and these wages would be kept high. There would be no pay comparisons among airlines. We would all be pilots payed according to our union's schedule. If the airline can't afford to pay us what we are worth, then they don't belong in the airline business.

NA

Originally Posted by sailingfun

I told my reps what I had put in the survey and asked how what I put down compared with others. I was told I was right at the mean in the surveys. My upfront raise was 20 percent with ongoing 5 percent raises over the life of a 4 year contract. Total 40. I wanted a lot on the other items and I was told I asked more then most in those areas. My emphasis areas were increasing copilot pay to a 15 year scale taking the max up to 75 percent of CA pay. Sick leave back to the pre 1113 program, DC up to 18 percent, reserve pay 5 hours below ALV with a 70 hour minimum, Vacation and training pay and credit for line construction and actual pay with increases to 4 hours per day for both. Section 1 gross weight maximum reduced to pre LOA 46 weight with current contracts sunsetted. 6th week of vacation restored. Distributed training pays 1 for 1.
I tried to figure a value for all I ask for and am guessing it is worth about 3/4 of a billion per year by the end of the contract. Thats about half the cost of a true restoration contract. Some items such a pay and vacation becoming pay and credit would have to be phased in because they will require several hundred more CA positions. I would give them a 2 year phase in on items like that.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

All you have to do is talk to your reps. They are not going to give details but they will give you a general idea. A survey online by DPA has no validity to what pilots actually put in the real survey they knew was going to be used to construct a opener. Most pilots are very aware that if you over reach under the RLA you end up iced long term. There is a time value to a contract. The Dalpa survey unlike the DPA survey has real implications and pilots who are concerned about maximizing their income and quality of life for themselves and their families put a lot of thought into what they felt was achievable. I told my reps what I had put in the survey and asked how what I put down compared with others. I was told I was right at the mean in the surveys. My upfront raise was 20 percent with ongoing 5 percent raises over the life of a 4 year contract. Total 40. I wanted a lot on the other items and I was told I asked more then most in those areas. My emphasis areas were increasing copilot pay to a 15 year scale taking the max up to 75 percent of CA pay. Sick leave back to the pre 1113 program, DC up to 18 percent, reserve pay 5 hours below ALV with a 70 hour minimum, Vacation and training pay and credit for line construction and actual pay with increases to 4 hours per day for both. Section 1 gross weight maximum reduced to pre LOA 46 weight with current contracts sunsetted. 6th week of vacation restored. Distributed training pays 1 for 1.
I tried to figure a value for all I ask for and am guessing it is worth about 3/4 of a billion per year by the end of the contract. Thats about half the cost of a true restoration contract. Some items such a pay and vacation becoming pay and credit would have to be phased in because they will require several hundred more CA positions. I would give them a 2 year phase in on items like that.

Originally Posted by freightguy

Great post!

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Its a great post until you read the RLA.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Its a great post until you read the RLA.

Originally Posted by Jesse

Oh, so all trust, no verify. Got it.

Originally Posted by dal 88 driver

"being defeated is often only a temporary condition.
Giving up is what makes it permanent."