ACL, In a rare moment of lucidity you concisely captured the essence of what's broken for pilots in this equation. ;-)

Successful company = shareholders gains = employee gains

Any imbalance in this equation is unsustainable and management knows it...
$1B sustained profit in tough economic times is off-the-chart successful for an airline.

But now Ed is on record at trying to bring cost in line with 2010 because CASM is up, and he wants pay to shoulder more than half of the increase in cost...

The displacements from the top tier equipment just might help accomplish that task by bumping a whole bunch of pilots to lower paying categories. remember it's status quo as you enter negotiations. Setting the bar lower now is a brilliant strategy.

Cheers
George

 

Hear, hear! ACL, do you believe DALPA hears us on these points? I hope so, but then I read some of the stuff our MEC chairman puts out and my stomach starts to hurt all over again

 

P-S-P

People Service Profits.

The displacements do not necessarily bother me. That is part of the business. What does get me is the reasons that we are overstaffed on our WB jets. Yes, Europe is down, but one must as if the cities we have opted not to serve are either down, or is it more profitable for the AF/KL/AZ/DAL JV to serve them though AMR or CDG? IMO the devil is in the details.

-Asia is doing very well. Opportunities exist, yet we see limited growth

-We are in a "new" three year measurement period with the North Atlantic JV therefore there is no corrective mechanism until after the measurement period is over. (Starting years two on April 1)

- Our block hrs will be up significantly in 2014 about the same time that the seat mods are done in our WB jets and the enforcement period comes in to play on the JV.

Coincidence? I will let you decide.

As an aside, I will agree that the JV production balance is a good deal for the pilots, but there are a few things that should have been added prior to implementation. As a result we need to play catchup in a few key areas. Of course many will argue that hindsight is always 20/20.

 

I have nothing against going to fly a contract gig. I am just amazed why anyone would want to go live in the planet's anus, but like you said, to each his own.

Tsquare, there is a world beyond Florida. For example, I don't think the beaches in Thailand looks anything like the planet's anus when compared to parts of Florida, Detroit, New York etc. (Many of my Far East expat friends live in Thailand and commute. There are even some current Delta pilots living there). Now... there are a lot of beautiful l-asses running around, which is a whole another topic. It's cheap to live, it's sunny year round, there are plenty of women and the beer is cheap. It will work for me if Delta plays nasty. Like you said, to each it's own. But I agree with you on the middle east. I can't do it... it's too different.

Don't inflate the importance of your leaving.. just sayin'... There are thousands of guys that would kill to have your seniority number.

Just stop talking like the company owes YOU something or you will leave. I promise you that they couldn't care less.

My leaving Delta will not make any ripples... granted. However, I won't be the only one leaving. When the retirements pick up, it will be an issue. Talk to any random regional guys/gals out there and most of the time the pick is Fedex, UPS, Southwest, Emirates etc. Delta is where they plan to go, if plan A,B,C and D does not work out. There will be a lot of pilots who will take the Delta job. But they will get their ratings and move onto greener pastures when those doors open. The old days of Delta occupying the top of the hiring food chain is slipping away. If nothing is done, Delta will have a problem attracting qualified talent.

I'm sorry if I offend you, but I do think that the company owes the pilot group a restoration of our contract... to the minimum. We gave out a temporary pay-cut. But that loan is long past the due date.

Unlike the management, we don't have the power to pat each other on the back and write million dollar bonus checks. But we are pilots. We are an extremely important piece of the finanancial back-bone of an airline. If we all operate the airplane exactly 'by the book' in the most conservative fashion, that can easily wipe out their entire profit book. I am a very important piece and so are you. Lets act like it and we can turn this industry around. The old days of scabbing are gone. We got two pilots from the entire US who crossed the picket line during the Spirit Airlines pilot strike... a far cry from the old Lorenzo-Continental days. I'm damn proud of today's airline pilot group in the United States. With massive retirements in the horizon and record low number of graduating pilots, the supply-demand curve is turning to our favor as well. Let's sieze the opportunity, rather than making lame excuses for the management.

That's all I have to say about that!

 

I do think he hears what we are saying. How he and the admin think about what we are saying is not something I can answer. What I can answer is the reps who will provide the direction, and who will force the issue if their direction is not adhered to hear you and in most cases agree with us.

To me it is simple. The pilots have demands, or needs. The MEC will take those forth, and if they come back with something that is not acceptable for me, my fellow pilots or my family, I vote no. I have no qualms with that. I know what I am worth understanding the industry as a whole, and AMR sitting in CH11. I understand that this may be a long drawn out fight, and I am willing to wait to get something that meets the goals of my fellow pilots and my family.

We work for the one company that is poised to significantly grow and be wildly profitable in the coming decade. A I have previously stated, I want this group to reap a linear return. Ticket prices have to reflect the commodity we sell. Passing 85% of the increase of the cost of fuel along to the consumer is 15% shy of what they need to be doing. Period. If that results in contraction, so be it. We need to have a sustainable business plan that has costs passed to the consumer, and not ate by labor.

 

Did anyone else notice that article the other day when they logged into Deltanet? The one about DELTA offering 6x daily service to Buffalo, NY. Then you open up the article and see how DELTA is touting their two-class stretch RJ as a significant improvement for that market. They then had a picture of an RJ crew standing in front of their plane. How dare they rub that in my face when I'm in a good mood at the start of a trip. That's not good news for Delta, certainly not Delta Pilots.
NA

 

You assume Deltanet is about Delta Air Lines, the company. It's about Delta Air Lines, the ticket brokerage.

 

My opinion isn't worth much, but here it is. I highly doubt the company will offer any leaves greater then 1 year. They won't even offer us early retirements that they're offering the rest of the airline employees. If one thinks they have better opportunities over seas, one will likely be required to resign. You won't be able to keep your number at DAL. And I don't see us getting restoration. Maybe SWA rates max, but that's it. Anything else will likely be a loooong fight. I thought we had a better chance, but Unicals failure to go anywhere and AA filing BK extinguished my hopes. Add to it GK is looking for lower labor costs at SWA, & the chances of a restoration contract are fading.

Point being, if you're considering an ex pat job but waiting until this contract is complete to decide, you may cost yourself several years of pay and seniority at the ex pat job. This contract may take a while.

 

It sure seems to be headed that way alright. What a shame that they would ignorantly post that in such a positive light when they have to know at minimum 12,000 of their employees would see it and get ****ed off. Can I use that word here?
NA

 

Do not let that extinguish your hopes! Erase the problems of other carriers form the equation. They are not our problem. We made $1 bil. each year the last two years and in this economy. They can afford our restoration and they will still have profit left over. We are negotiating for an agreement with Delta Air Lines not the rest of the airline industry.