Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Closed Thread Subscribe

Page 9087 of 20174

9087

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

02-29-2012 | 07:22 PM

#90861

Express pilot

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jan 2006

Posts: 762

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg

It's called the Spin Zone. Remember, if they manage to bring down your expectations, then it will be easier for them to say "look we got you what we promised......" .(not really what you deserve).....they are looking for the least path of resistance, on all sides.

It just ****es you off that we pay for this **** Bill. Wake me up if they ever produce.

02-29-2012 | 07:25 PM

#90862

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

I recently had an interesting discussion with a rep about this, and about how we put out our C2K opener. He reminded me we put out ours only after the company put up something obscene and ridiculous.

BS. That C2K opener was released...period. The company's opener is ALWAYS obscene and ridiculous. This time, our union won't release it. Everyone needs to make their own decisions as to why that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Personally, I was sure we would publish our opener. My reps are asking for input, but made a good point recently: if you're releasing it, you're generally trying to support your negotiating goals, make some sort of an impact. Not satisfy curiosity.

Exactly correct! That's precisely why you release the opener to your members. You're going to need their support when it comes to crunch time. Do you realize what it means when DALPA doesn't release it this time? Do you understand that it means either DALPA doesn't care about us supporting their negotiating goals, or they know we wouldn't if we found out what they were?

Carl

02-29-2012 | 07:34 PM

#90863

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

So let's say we put out what we want on day 1 of the amendable date.

Then what?

In effect, you've announced the end of constructive engagement,

No, DAL management has already announced that long ago. Do you recall the RAH scope violation? Or the LGA/DCA slot swap?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

and told Moak to stick it, with his boot-licking attitude, and we're done talking. This is what we want, and we know we deserve it. We're going to do it the old fashion way.

What Moak wants no longer matters to us sink...he no longer works here. Moak's opinion should NEVER have mattered, other than his one vote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Then what?

Then, nothing. Sound of crickets. Don't bother winding your watch, because this one is going to take a calendar. Like a Mayan calendar, where the world ends in 2012. We can then invite our friends at uCAL and LCC, and have ourselves a barbecue, compare notes. We'll need chicken, because it's cheaper, and maybe a few fourties. They still make Old Milwaukee?

That's just silly scare tactics from DALPA. That's not what the NMB would allow in our situation. You have to understand that what happened at AMR has no similarity to us whatsoever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

I guess I do want to see the opener, but I also want to see it for a reason, and for some purpose. If it comes out immediately, it tells me the company isn't even close, and it tells me RA is playing defense. And defense under the RLA is the easiest game to play.

Not unless you pursue an utterly failed strategy like APA did. A smart strategy can force management out of defense.

Carl

02-29-2012 | 07:36 PM

#90864

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Its a great post until you read the RLA.

This response only proves you have no idea what's in the RLA, or the role of the NMB...or you're just shilling for management.

Carl

02-29-2012 | 07:40 PM

#90865

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtwairbus320

**** the RLA! Laws can change. We can make it happen. If we all had balls, and I mean collectively all pilots, when it got down to the wire we would use our toes and stop the entire operation. Are they going to throw us all in jail?

While it would be great to change the RLA, it's not necessary for us to achieve success. A smart strategy that is eminently defensible in front of the NMB is all you need...along with a union that actually wants to extract the maximum for its members. But as you know, we don't currenty have that.

Carl

02-29-2012 | 07:42 PM

#90866

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by freightguy

I am well aware of the RLA. RLA is outdated and a definite slap in our collective faces. Few months ago CAPA (Coalition of Airline Pilots), started a national campaign to amend the RLA. CAPA was able to schedule meetings at the national level to amend the RLA and section 1113C of the bankruptcy code. ALPA never joined the fight for reasons unknown. I called and wrote my reps several times and told them that this should be a very high priority item. But as usual, nothing got done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1

Our union president said, about 13 months ago, that crewpass was his #1 priority. We all see how that made a difference.

It is my belief that decoupling airlines from the RLA should be his first priority.

Yet ALPA national doesn't even mention it as a goal, or a threat to our profession.

Carl

02-29-2012 | 08:14 PM

#90867

johnso29

Moderator

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 13,088

Likes: 0

From: B757/767

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

This response only proves you have no idea what's in the RLA, or the role of the NMB...or you're just shilling for management.

Carl

Perhaps you could expand Carl. Please fill us in on what sailingfun has no idea about.

02-29-2012 | 08:15 PM

#90868

tomgoodman

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Feb 2006

Posts: 6,248

Likes: 0

From: 767A (Ret)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I'm certain that it would send management slinking away because any attempt by management to use another employee group for any reason is forbidden in a Section 6 negotiations under the RLA.

Carl

Management did try that a few contracts ago -- spread the word among ground employees that the "greedy pilots' demands" would make it impossible for them to get a raise. When DALPA called a foul, they claimed that "overzealous middle managers" were responsible and would be reprimanded.

It backfired anyway, since experienced non-contract employees knew from long history that a pilot raise always led to one for them right afterward. One senior mechanic said: "We can see what they're up to. You guys hang in there."

02-29-2012 | 08:33 PM

#90869

76drvr

Banned

Joined: Aug 2011

Posts: 474

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg

Why again wasn't KLM and AF included in the contract comparisons?

It's my understanding that unlike here in the US, in Europe airline pilot collective bargaining agreements are not made public by the unions or employers and that the AF/klm pilots were wling to share the details so long as ALPA didn't publish them.

02-29-2012 | 08:47 PM

#90870

1234

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Feb 2009

Posts: 782

Likes: 0

From: 717

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtwairbus320

This is what they have conditioned us to accept. It is up to us to change that. It's also up to us to change the public's perception of what an airline ticket should cost. Doesn't it make you mad when someone you know complains about how expensive that $199 ticket across the country cost them. Are you kidding me? Before regulation airlines were insured to make 12% profit at 50% load factors. How much would that ticket be today adjusted for inflation? Has oil increased since then? Have other operating costs increased since then? I can't think of any other services that have lowered their fee to the public since 1978 except ours.
NA

Telecommunications (i.e. long distance)...