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Old 05-19-2012, 06:45 AM
  #99841  
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Bar, will you report aby conversation you have with RA??

we need something to work off of.

also someone get Guard Dude up on Alert 5 or something, come Monday if we see this TA then we'll easily hit 100,000 posts.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:22 AM
  #99842  
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It sounds to me like the MEC needs to open up this process a bit. They need to at least release a summary of what it is they are debating.
The rank and file delta pilots should be allowed to provide some input before our reps vote.
There is no good reason for all this secrecy.
I suppose it's too late now. I hope the reps have been able to stand up to any excess arm-twisting that has been occurring.

They should send out a blast email and announce the time and place for Monday's final debate and open it to the rank-and-file.

Last edited by Check Essential; 05-19-2012 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:24 AM
  #99843  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
Airmanship is the problem. Airbus made a big point in their development that they intended to design a aircraft that did not require airmanship. Sadly it has not worked out quite like they planned. We have also watched as most airlines eliminate basic flying skills from training. If you don't require those skills you open the profession up to a larger group and can then lower wages. What does it say when a pilot at a major airline is not comfortable when cleared for the visual on downwind in a 757 flying a standard visual pattern and instead has to fly out to the OM before turning back into the field. They are not even comfortable with their own skills to fly the aircraft. When the chips are down and things go very bad it will not be a matter of trying to fall back on old skills, there will be no old skills to use and the result can be predicted in advance. More and more accidents are along these lines. Many pilots today could not pass a sim check from 25 years ago. The solution is make the check rides easier and easier. That falls back on management desire to expand the pool of pilots to keep wages low.
Very well put. It's become a huge problem at many of the lower-cost Asian and African airlines that is now spreading in Europe, and threatens to become a problem in the US. My airline takes a pretty enlightened view on automation, and while we do handfly quite a bit I still have to twist FO's arms to get them to turn off the autothrottles once in a while. They say other captains get twitchy when they turn them off. Several airlines in Europe have already prohibited their pilots from turning off autothrottles & mandate autopilot usage above 1000'. Madness, I say....
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:52 AM
  #99844  
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RA is working the beer tent at the block party if anyone wants to ask him any questions
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:03 AM
  #99845  
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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy View Post
How do two pilots inadvertently zoom climb at 5700' per minute while in cruise and NOBODY notices? Seriously, something must be wrong with the Airbus design or the pilots that get chosen to fly for Air France are seriously inept!

From the article:

"Recent studies show that the effect of surprise is the subject of little, or no, simulator training," says the BEA. It is recommending to the European Aviation Safety Agency that surprise effects be introduced to training scenarios to help pilots react to them and work under stress.



How do you study for surprise in a simulator when most guys are constantly expecting to be surprised? Quite the conundrum.

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Old 05-19-2012, 08:14 AM
  #99846  
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Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
From the article:

"Recent studies show that the effect of surprise is the subject of little, or no, simulator training," says the BEA. It is recommending to the European Aviation Safety Agency that surprise effects be introduced to training scenarios to help pilots react to them and work under stress.



How do you study for surprise in a simulator when most guys are constantly expecting to be surprised? Quite the conundrum.

Scoop
I've been inadvertently surprised in the sim and it was quite the eye opener. Briefed and prepared for a specific maneuver and you're expecting it to come at any moment and it doesn't... then something else happens.

A lot of times, this has been by accident. My favorite, and most recent example, was an engine failure being set for the wrong speed by the instructor. I was expecting the takeoff to turn into a reject... it instead turned into a V2 cut. Caught me off guard and I'd say I actually gained a lot more from it than had it actually ended up being the planned RTO.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:21 AM
  #99847  
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Or trying to guarantee themselves a full 7 days of fpl and free booze and food Just kidding, I'm sure they are going over the whole contract with a microscope.


Originally Posted by shiznit View Post
Anyone else think that they are following the Delta MEC policy manual and doing their due diligence?
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:56 AM
  #99848  
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Originally Posted by NERD View Post
Or trying to guarantee themselves a full 7 days of fpl and free booze and food Just kidding, I'm sure they are going over the whole contract with a microscope.
The reps are not happy about being there over the weekend,but they know the debate needs to happen. Our careers and families deserve their honest thoughtful debate.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:56 AM
  #99849  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar View Post
This TA apparently isn't getting instant "approve this thing by acclimation" treatment, which tells me there are a couple of NO Votes. That's a good thing, indicating democracy is working. The bad news is that there are obvious indications of problems with this agreement.
Fair assessment. I'd also add that if that is the case, the fact that its still being vetted troubling because that means its being pushed by the NC and/or MEC despite reservations bad enough to warrant some reps (at least initially wanting to) vote no.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:05 AM
  #99850  
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Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
RA is working the beer tent at the block party if anyone wants to ask him any questions
oooh. i should go over there and introduce myself as [redacted but 80ktsclamp real name] and ask a bunch of questions I wouldnt dare ask with my name.
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