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scambo1 09-04-2014 03:25 AM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1718803)
That still doesn't prove his claim.

OJ wasn't guilty either.

gzsg 09-04-2014 03:37 AM

And, Mary Jane, this is Ed. One additional thing, we also reduced the profit sharing going forward and that’s an important part of helping to fund that cost growth.

Self Funding our hourly increase by giving up profit sharing is a huge mistake we cannot afford to make again. As you can see from Ed's comment above on C2012, this is clearly management's goal.

Our profit sharing check next February will double. IMO 2015 will be another 50% larger again as Delta makes $5.5 billion or more next year.

If you reduce profit sharing and increase hourly rates, your W-2 stays the same.

Our W-2 need to increase 25% date of signing. Coupled with improvements in the rest of the PWA C2015 needs to add $1 billion to the Delta pilots.
Edit

scambo1 09-04-2014 03:46 AM


Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1719108)
And, Mary Jane, this is Ed. One additional thing, we also reduced the profit sharing going forward and that’s an important part of helping to fund that cost growth.

Self Funding our hourly increase by giving up profit sharing is a huge mistake we cannot afford to make again. As you can see from Ed's comment above on C2012, this is clearly management's goal.

Our profit sharing check next February will double. IMO 2015 will be another 50% larger again as Delta makes $5.5 billion or more next year.

If you reduce profit sharing and increase hourly rates, your W-2 stays the same.

Our W-2 need to increase 25% date of signing. Coupled with improvements in the rest of the PWA C2015 needs to add $1 billion to the Delta pilots.
Edit

Jerry,
Wouldn't a 25% increase add $1B by itself?

Alan Shore 09-04-2014 04:00 AM


Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1719108)
If you reduce profit sharing and increase hourly rates, your W-2 stays the same.

I understand (and agree with most of) your point, but the statement above pre-supposes that the increase in hourly rates has exactly the same value as the reduction in profit sharing. In C2012, hourly rates increase by 8.5% in 2013 offset by a 33% reduction in our profit sharing up to $2.5B.

That reduction had a value of up to $42M, which is roughly equivalent to a 2% increase in hourly rates. So our W2 went up in 2013, but by only 6.5% and not 8.5%, all other things being equal , e.g., hours flown, etc.

Alan Shore 09-04-2014 04:02 AM


Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1719111)
Wouldn't a 25% increase add $1B by itself?

I thought that 1% is just over $20M. So, 25% should be a little over $500M.

scambo1 09-04-2014 04:08 AM


Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1719114)
I thought that 1% is just over $20M. So, 25% should be a little over $500M.

Ok, I thought we were told 1% was $40m at the end of c12.

Alan Shore 09-04-2014 04:08 AM


Originally Posted by Whidbey (Post 1718902)
However, when we say...(moving days in the summer bid months and giving up ALV+15) cost us 100-150 pilots, that's really another way of saying that the work of those 100-150 pilots has been distributed across the pilot group via these productivity increases.

I do not believe that increasing max reserves costs jobs. To the extent that such an increase causes reserve pilots on an aircraft to work on average even one more minute than they did before, the staffing formula immediately begins to require more pilots on that aircraft.

But I agree with the rest of your statement. Moving days in the summer bid months and going to an 84-hour ALV did cost 100 or so jobs (assuming no change in block hours), according to the roadshow materials, by distributing the work among that many fewer pilots. The flip side then is that you have less overstaffing in the winter months, which means two things:
  1. Fewer pilots are forced to reserve during those months (good for QOL)
  2. Reserve pilots work more during those months (not so good for QOL)

Alan Shore 09-04-2014 04:20 AM


Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1718740)
Yet even after all that, our current pay rates are approximately 34% below the buying power we had with our pay rates throughout most of the 1980's, 1990's, and early 2000's. I guess if you accept bankruptcy as the new baseline, then 19.5% is really good. Trying to recover from a 42% pay cut... not so much.

Try to keep up, please. Alfa's point was that C2012 was cost-neutral. it had nothing to do with whether it was enough, whether there was money left on the table, etc.

Alan Shore 09-04-2014 04:22 AM


Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1718749)
if we're to the point that we have to hire an outside party to audit and verify what DALPA is doing... which by extension means we don't trust DALPA... then tell me again why we accept representation like that in the first place? If I had someone representing me (like say, a lawyer or something) and I reached the conclusion that I couldn't trust them anymore, I would fire their @ss and replace them with someone I could trust. I wouldn't be wasting time and money on having someone else look over their shoulder. No trust? No deal... I simply don't do business with you.

Agreed....

sailingfun 09-04-2014 04:26 AM


Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1719113)
I understand (and agree with most of) your point, but the statement above pre-supposes that the increase in hourly rates has exactly the same value as the reduction in profit sharing. In C2012, hourly rates increase by 8.5% in 2013 offset by a 33% reduction in our profit sharing up to $2.5B.

That reduction had a value of up to $42M, which is roughly equivalent to a 2% increase in hourly rates. So our W2 went up in 2013, but by only 6.5% and not 8.5%, all other things being equal , e.g., hours flown, etc.

Your also leaving out the early raise of 4%. As of the amendable date the actual raise including the profit sharing reduction was about 10.8% for lineholders on most equipment. There was a additional raise for the 88's and reserves saw another 8 Percent raise. In addition the average pilot saw 10 to 12 hours more vacation and training pay for about 1 percent more in W2. Raise at signing was a minimum of 11.8 at the bottom to 20.8 for a mad dog reserve at the high end assuming the airline made at least 2.5 billion in pre tax profit. That includes the reduction in profit sharing.


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