First I will acknowledge improvements. The 5:15 ADG is an improvement I would have liked to already have it but I can wait till November. The four percent total after inflation. We got from contract 2012 was an improvement just not the 19 percent DALPA has been selling.

As far as complaints my rep has never seen the need to email me back any time I have ever reached out to him. The shut up and color comment is because I watch you and a few others shoot down anyone who has a suggestion. I appreciate Sailingfun and Shiznit because even though I don't agree with them they at least answer and engage people with different opinions. I do not want the same propaganda shows like we got with contract 2012, we have alot of leverage lets use it this time.

Do you believe you are working more because we had a surplus of 800 copilots in 2012 which is now gone or because of contractual changes?

C2012.

And no, I don't have any proof because they won't release the survey results. But my experience with other Delta pilots has been that virtually no one put on their survey anything even remotely as low as 4833 for the minimum pay increase. Just because data doesn't exist (or in this case, isn't available) to support something doesn't mean it's not true. Sometimes all one needs is a lot of personal experience, along with common sense, to know with a high degree of certainty that something is or is not the case.

What suggestions have I shot down? I have also repeatedly acknowledged what I didn't like about C2012. ALV+15 should've been limited to WB fleets IMO. It was a mistake to spread that to the NB fleets. I don't like the bid period adjustments either. I do like the new sick policy though, and I am a fan of the BHR that was established. As far as pay not keeping up with inflation. Is that an issue for only Delta pilots? Or the pilot profession? Or is it a problem we see across most professions? Are there many professions that are keeping up with inflation? It would seem unfair to me to pin that on our union if it were simply what is happening in today's world.

I'm always open to a rational, fact based discussion. I'm not open to attacks, or being called a DALPA apologist simply because my standards or goals are different than others.(Not directed at you) I see a lot of the same arguments here, but little guidance or ideas as to how to get there.

I will do some research, but I believe there is a quid pro quo for the delay of 5:15.

C2012 makes your claim no more true than mine or anyone else's. It's not proof of anything you claim. Nor is your small survey of those you encounter. Just conjecture on your part.

Would any Delta guy mind putting up the pay banding for your current fleet. Don't want wages just the bands the different airplanes fall into.

Thanks

Did you miss the whole part where I said I have no "proof?" :rolleyes:

But just because there is no "proof" (i.e. data to view) doesn't mean it's not correct. If DALPA would release the survey results, then there would be proof... which is a big part of the reason they won't release it.

Can you honestly tell me that any significant number of Delta pilots you ran across at the time (other than those few on the inside in the DALPA echo chamber) indicated to you that something anywhere near as low as 4833 would be acceptable? Cause I can guarantee you I never ran across a single line pilot at the time that had expectations anywhere near that low.

Delta has:

747/777
330/767-400
767-300/757
737-900
737-800/700
320/319
M88/90
717

Just to add to that:

the 737-900 rates are around a dollar above the 737-700/800 rates for CA and 50 cents for FO.

There is no 321 rate yet, but the planes are on the way.

There are also E190/175/CRJ900 rates, but those airframes aren't operated on property. Yet.

You know what, I've come to be conclusion that DALPA releasing survey results is not a specific enough demand. After all, a "union" that misrepresented, cherry-picked, and generally obfuscated the contents of C12 with slick marketing materials and a ruthless, debate-squelching propaganda machine would surely engage in the same tactics to spin its survey results.

From now on when we demand to see the survey results, we need to caveat that with the demand that the survey be conducted--and data compiled, analyzed, and released-- by a third party vendor with an irreproachable reputation. Without any interference from DALPA.

It will cost some money. I'm fine with that. I'd rather have our dues money spent on transparency than on Dalpa's self-serving propaganda.