Details on Delta TA
10-04-2014 | 04:08 PM
#2621
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
About what, 80% of our pilots have already topped out the 12yr. pay scale today?
Making a 12 yr. (+) F/O upgrade to Capt. won't save them any money, vs. a 'new hire 717 Captain', making new hire rates.
10-04-2014 | 04:50 PM
#2622
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,566
Likes: 314
From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
Do you really think "new hires" are going to be able to hold 717A? When you force someone into the left seat, two-years later they will bid back to a widebody B, thus generating enormous training churn.
10-04-2014 | 04:50 PM
#2623
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 0
From: A330 First Officer
My crystal ball for C2015 has this on the company's wish list:
1. Sick time revamp-they want a do over and are not happy with the 100 hours unverified.
2. SDP, CDO's, Illegals or what ever you want to call them. If we give this up it dilutes the 5+15 we just negotiated when they build them into rotations instead of a 30 hour layover.
3. Profit sharing- wall street doesn't like the size of the check now a days so they will try and pull a 1-1 on the payrates. If we give it up for rates then it needs to be after we negotiate the original rates then maybe we will think about it..not.
4. Pay banding or longer freezes. I know it's been a long time since we've seen this much training activity but the company really doesn't like it when we jump from seat to seat when the pipelines are full.
What I hope DALPA's wish list includes:
1. Pay rates negotiated without regard to losing profit sharing.
2. Another week of vacation.
3. A paid APD each year
4. Sick time remains the same. It's not great but we can live with it.
5. No SDP's
6. No pay banding
7. Per diem goes to joint travel regs (more money for expensive cities)
8. Uniform allowance (DALPA said we need to find ways to bulk up pay without bulking up the pay rates too much)
9. Dry cleaning allowance.
1. Sick time revamp-they want a do over and are not happy with the 100 hours unverified.
2. SDP, CDO's, Illegals or what ever you want to call them. If we give this up it dilutes the 5+15 we just negotiated when they build them into rotations instead of a 30 hour layover.
3. Profit sharing- wall street doesn't like the size of the check now a days so they will try and pull a 1-1 on the payrates. If we give it up for rates then it needs to be after we negotiate the original rates then maybe we will think about it..not.
4. Pay banding or longer freezes. I know it's been a long time since we've seen this much training activity but the company really doesn't like it when we jump from seat to seat when the pipelines are full.
What I hope DALPA's wish list includes:
1. Pay rates negotiated without regard to losing profit sharing.
2. Another week of vacation.
3. A paid APD each year
4. Sick time remains the same. It's not great but we can live with it.
5. No SDP's
6. No pay banding
7. Per diem goes to joint travel regs (more money for expensive cities)
8. Uniform allowance (DALPA said we need to find ways to bulk up pay without bulking up the pay rates too much)
9. Dry cleaning allowance.
10-04-2014 | 05:06 PM
#2624
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,599
Likes: 2
My crystal ball for C2015 has this on the company's wish list:
1. Sick time revamp-they want a do over and are not happy with the 100 hours unverified.
2. SDP, CDO's, Illegals or what ever you want to call them. If we give this up it dilutes the 5+15 we just negotiated when they build them into rotations instead of a 30 hour layover.
3. Profit sharing- wall street doesn't like the size of the check now a days so they will try and pull a 1-1 on the payrates. If we give it up for rates then it needs to be after we negotiate the original rates then maybe we will think about it..not.
4. Pay banding or longer freezes. I know it's been a long time since we've seen this much training activity but the company really doesn't like it when we jump from seat to seat when the pipelines are full.
What I hope DALPA's wish list includes:
1. Pay rates negotiated without regard to losing profit sharing.
2. Another week of vacation.
3. A paid APD each year
4. Sick time remains the same. It's not great but we can live with it.
5. No SDP's
6. No pay banding
7. Per diem goes to joint travel regs (more money for expensive cities)
8. Uniform allowance (DALPA said we need to find ways to bulk up pay without bulking up the pay rates too much)
9. Dry cleaning allowance.
1. Sick time revamp-they want a do over and are not happy with the 100 hours unverified.
2. SDP, CDO's, Illegals or what ever you want to call them. If we give this up it dilutes the 5+15 we just negotiated when they build them into rotations instead of a 30 hour layover.
3. Profit sharing- wall street doesn't like the size of the check now a days so they will try and pull a 1-1 on the payrates. If we give it up for rates then it needs to be after we negotiate the original rates then maybe we will think about it..not.
4. Pay banding or longer freezes. I know it's been a long time since we've seen this much training activity but the company really doesn't like it when we jump from seat to seat when the pipelines are full.
What I hope DALPA's wish list includes:
1. Pay rates negotiated without regard to losing profit sharing.
2. Another week of vacation.
3. A paid APD each year
4. Sick time remains the same. It's not great but we can live with it.
5. No SDP's
6. No pay banding
7. Per diem goes to joint travel regs (more money for expensive cities)
8. Uniform allowance (DALPA said we need to find ways to bulk up pay without bulking up the pay rates too much)
9. Dry cleaning allowance.
11. Holiday pay
10-04-2014 | 05:32 PM
#2625
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
What I hope DALPA's wish list includes:
1. Pay rates negotiated without regard to losing profit sharing.
2. Another week of vacation.
3. A paid APD each year
4. Sick time remains the same. It's not great but we can live with it.
5. No SDP's
6. No pay banding
7. Per diem goes to joint travel regs (more money for expensive cities)
8. Uniform allowance (DALPA said we need to find ways to bulk up pay without bulking up the pay rates too much)
9. Dry cleaning allowance.
1. Pay rates negotiated without regard to losing profit sharing.
2. Another week of vacation.
3. A paid APD each year
4. Sick time remains the same. It's not great but we can live with it.
5. No SDP's
6. No pay banding
7. Per diem goes to joint travel regs (more money for expensive cities)
8. Uniform allowance (DALPA said we need to find ways to bulk up pay without bulking up the pay rates too much)
9. Dry cleaning allowance.
Carl
10-04-2014 | 05:51 PM
#2626
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
You look Marvelous!
You know...ALPA needs a new President, and since you've already got the oil painting... why not throw your hat in the ring?
I can see your first ALPA BOD meeting as President now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXydX9p_ZxA
(that's me in the tux, between the two hot blondes!)
You know...ALPA needs a new President, and since you've already got the oil painting... why not throw your hat in the ring?
I can see your first ALPA BOD meeting as President now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXydX9p_ZxA
(that's me in the tux, between the two hot blondes!)
10-04-2014 | 07:52 PM
#2627
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
What are you talking about? You left out some important details. Who is talking about gutting sick time? What does "monthly minimum" mean? Mandatory upgrade like up or out? Who is saying this? Why should we reject a TA for negotiations that haven't started? What is "all the leverage"?
If you didn't limit yourself to three sentence fragments per paragraph we might have a clearer idea of what you are saying.
If you didn't limit yourself to three sentence fragments per paragraph we might have a clearer idea of what you are saying.
Guys,
Gerry is on to something. I have been to two separate roadshows during different cycles, been in ATL for two days of management briefings as a new hire mentor, and talked with my CP a few times.
A common theme that came up at every one of these venues has been our productivity and our sick leave usage. You can bet that both of these items are very high on managements "want list" for 2015. I must admit I have never heard of any discussions about mandatory upgrades but who knows.
So to answer your question "Who is talking about sick time?" The answer is senior DAL management. I don't know what "monthly minimums" are and I have not heard this come up yet but "pilot productivity" has come up at every one of the above occasions and is probably related to monthly minimums in one way or another.
Someone said that these are "trail-balloons." Well I guess so, but I would say more like management talking points. I have heard almost the exact same verbiage by different members of our management team in different venues - this can not be a coincidence.
But keep in mind we are not in discussions yet (to my knowledge) and management is entitled to their want list just as we are. C2015 will be a give and take between us and management. We have the most favorable negotiating environment in decades we should do pretty darn well.
So the sky is not falling, but being forewarned always helps.
Scoop
10-04-2014 | 10:34 PM
#2628
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 3
From: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Guys,
Gerry is on to something. I have been to two separate roadshows during different cycles, been in ATL for two days of management briefings as a new hire mentor, and talked with my CP a few times.
A common theme that came up at every one of these venues has been our productivity and our sick leave usage. You can bet that both of these items are very high on managements "want list" for 2015. I must admit I have never heard of any discussions about mandatory upgrades but who knows.
So to answer your question "Who is talking about sick time?" The answer is senior DAL management. I don't know what "monthly minimums" are and I have not heard this come up yet but "pilot productivity" has come up at every one of the above occasions and is probably related to monthly minimums in one way or another.
Someone said that these are "trail-balloons." Well I guess so, but I would say more like management talking points. I have heard almost the exact same verbiage by different members of our management team in different venues - this can not be a coincidence.
But keep in mind we are not in discussions yet (to my knowledge) and management is entitled to their want list just as we are. C2015 will be a give and take between us and management. We have the most favorable negotiating environment in decades we should do pretty darn well.
So the sky is not falling, but being forewarned always helps.
Scoop
Gerry is on to something. I have been to two separate roadshows during different cycles, been in ATL for two days of management briefings as a new hire mentor, and talked with my CP a few times.
A common theme that came up at every one of these venues has been our productivity and our sick leave usage. You can bet that both of these items are very high on managements "want list" for 2015. I must admit I have never heard of any discussions about mandatory upgrades but who knows.
So to answer your question "Who is talking about sick time?" The answer is senior DAL management. I don't know what "monthly minimums" are and I have not heard this come up yet but "pilot productivity" has come up at every one of the above occasions and is probably related to monthly minimums in one way or another.
Someone said that these are "trail-balloons." Well I guess so, but I would say more like management talking points. I have heard almost the exact same verbiage by different members of our management team in different venues - this can not be a coincidence.
But keep in mind we are not in discussions yet (to my knowledge) and management is entitled to their want list just as we are. C2015 will be a give and take between us and management. We have the most favorable negotiating environment in decades we should do pretty darn well.
So the sky is not falling, but being forewarned always helps.
Scoop
We are in a favorable negotiating environment. I want gains, but would accept slightly smaller gains in order to not take concessions somewhere else. We don't need CDOs, worse sick leave, pay banding, minimums or anything else that makes your QOL or W2 worse.
In this environment I lean toward a no vote for anything that makes a section of the contract worse. Of course, I will look at the whole package though.
This is THE opportunity to take a reasonable bite without throwing anything away.
10-05-2014 | 04:45 AM
#2629
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 922
Likes: 0
From: Decoupled
Monthly Minimums.
I was at a PUB event for POS2012. I specifically asked about this issue because I love low time. I was told that at that time the Company wasn't interested in expending any negotiating capital for this item. They said that there were few pilots interested in low time.
Perhaps things have changed in the intervening period. I will tell you that it is my dream to get to my last five years and fly no more than 30-35 hours each month. This way I get insurance and benefits with minimal effort. I must assume that I am not the only one with this plan.
I think this is what the Company is considering.
I was at a PUB event for POS2012. I specifically asked about this issue because I love low time. I was told that at that time the Company wasn't interested in expending any negotiating capital for this item. They said that there were few pilots interested in low time.
Perhaps things have changed in the intervening period. I will tell you that it is my dream to get to my last five years and fly no more than 30-35 hours each month. This way I get insurance and benefits with minimal effort. I must assume that I am not the only one with this plan.
I think this is what the Company is considering.
10-05-2014 | 05:09 AM
#2630
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Monthly Minimums.
I was at a PUB event for POS2012. I specifically asked about this issue because I love low time. I was told that at that time the Company wasn't interested in expending any negotiating capital for this item. They said that there were few pilots interested in low time.
Perhaps things have changed in the intervening period. I will tell you that it is my dream to get to my last five years and fly no more than 30-35 hours each month. This way I get insurance and benefits with minimal effort. I must assume that I am not the only one with this plan.
I think this is what the Company is considering.
I was at a PUB event for POS2012. I specifically asked about this issue because I love low time. I was told that at that time the Company wasn't interested in expending any negotiating capital for this item. They said that there were few pilots interested in low time.
Perhaps things have changed in the intervening period. I will tell you that it is my dream to get to my last five years and fly no more than 30-35 hours each month. This way I get insurance and benefits with minimal effort. I must assume that I am not the only one with this plan.
I think this is what the Company is considering.
I fly with a lot of guys who are over 60 and NONE of them are flying 'low time'! The whole thing may be a 'throw away' item for the company, to get us to trade something else for it...like...pay banding!
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