Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1802298)

Did we hear a word about it in C2012 prior to the TA being presented to the pilot group for MEMRAT?

You can't expect pilots to at least be somewhat leery of what we'll be asked to give up in C2015 given DALPA's support of funding a contractual raise through a reduction in profit sharing and/or the line of logics that requires the group to surrender something for a menial gain.

From this line guy's perspective...ANY reduction in profit sharing is a no go item for me. Won't even need to look at pay raises. Negotiating away profit sharing at a time when the company is making record profits defeats the very purpose of us negotiating profit sharing into the contract. Profit sharing was the incentivized carrot used to rally this companys' employees together to bring it back from the brink of insolvency.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1802300)

If the company offered to increase it in return for less pay would you be interested?

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1800260)

No, that's why it makes sense to monetize the profit sharing if it's above and beyond the negotiated payrates. In my case it's probably better to stick with profit sharing with the few years I have left. If however i had 20 years to go I would want the money in the payrates.
"The industry is fundamentally changed. Double digit rate of returns are hear to stay!" That was the Mantra being touted by management and unions alike in 2000. By June of 2001 the airlines were facing some of the biggest losses ever. It turned in the blink of a eye. For the young guys we need to be very careful how much at risk based compensation we leave in our contracts. It would be beyond stupid to negotiate based on good times forever.

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1802306)

This is an interesting conversation. If ALPA and the Company aren't entertaining a reduction in PS, good for them.

PD hasn't backed up his claim yet, but I'm not dismissing it out-of-hand. Jerry has made the claim that some specific people are pushing for a monetization of the PS, but he can't back it up. Jerry sometimes has great rumors, sometimes he's just a puppet for some council's ventriloquist. He's warned on things that haven't yet materialized, like Pay Banding, but he failed to warn on SDP's.

I'm one of the people that believes he saw a trial balloon floating across the lounge. To be clear, I spoke to a guy that likes to be union-adjacent, but isn't in the structure as far as I know. He told me he had just spoken about the AA TA with a rep, and he (the pilot, not the rep) believed we wouldn't see much above AMR (DAL+7%) without monetizing the PS. I didn't have the time to expand on how the previous conversation caused him to believe this. For all I know, the rep simply told him the AA numbers, and that was that. I really have no first-hand knowledge of anyone in the union pushing for a monetization of the PS.

Another reason I thought some of had been exposed to trial balloons was this post:



But now sailing says he saw nothing, heard nothing...

So far, we have an unconfirmed from PD, a denial from sailing, the usual from Jerry, and the impression that I saw a trial balloon floating by, maybe, via proxy.

Anyone else?

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1802306)

This is an interesting conversation. If ALPA and the Company aren't entertaining a reduction in PS, good for them.

PD hasn't backed up his claim yet, but I'm not dismissing it out-of-hand. Jerry has made the claim that some specific people are pushing for a monetization of the PS, but he can't back it up. Jerry sometimes has great rumors, sometimes he's just a puppet for some council's ventriloquist. He's warned on things that haven't yet materialized, like Pay Banding, but he failed to warn on SDP's.

I'm one of the people that believes he saw a trial balloon floating across the lounge. To be clear, I spoke to a guy that likes to be union-adjacent, but isn't in the structure as far as I know. He told me he had just spoken about the AA TA with a rep, and he (the pilot, not the rep) believed we wouldn't see much above AMR (DAL+7%) without monetizing the PS. I didn't have the time to expand on how the previous conversation caused him to believe this. For all I know, the rep simply told him the AA numbers, and that was that. I really have no first-hand knowledge of anyone in the union pushing for a monetization of the PS.

Another reason I thought some of had been exposed to trial balloons was this post:



But now sailing says he saw nothing, heard nothing...

So far, we have an unconfirmed from PD, a denial from sailing, the usual from Jerry, and the impression that I saw a trial balloon floating by, maybe, via proxy.

Anyone else?

Originally Posted by RockyBoy (Post 1802313)

The fact that DALPA traded us down the river on PS last time around just makes us all believe that is the case this time. I'm 100% certain that if DALPA has 16% DOS raise in their opener, the company will counter with 10% plus a cut in PS equal to what the 16% would have given us. Why wouldn't they? It worked great for them last time around.

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1802315)

Personally sink, if AMR is floating a TA that contains no profit sharing, then I would not be surprised if similat TA are subsequently floated to UA or DAL in the near future. I admit that's speculation.

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1802306)

This is an interesting conversation. If ALPA and the Company aren't entertaining a reduction in PS, good for them.

PD hasn't backed up his claim yet, but I'm not dismissing it out-of-hand. Jerry has made the claim that some specific people are pushing for a monetization of the PS, but he can't back it up. Jerry sometimes has great rumors, sometimes he's just a puppet for some council's ventriloquist. He's warned on things that haven't yet materialized, like Pay Banding, but he failed to warn on SDP's.

I'm one of the people that believes he saw a trial balloon floating across the lounge. To be clear, I spoke to a guy that likes to be union-adjacent, but isn't in the structure as far as I know. He told me he had just spoken about the AA TA with a rep, and he (the pilot, not the rep) believed we wouldn't see much above AMR (DAL+7%) without monetizing the PS. I didn't have the time to expand on how the previous conversation caused him to believe this. For all I know, the rep simply told him the AA numbers, and that was that. I really have no first-hand knowledge of anyone in the union pushing for a monetization of the PS.

Another reason I thought some of had been exposed to trial balloons was this post:



But now sailing says he saw nothing, heard nothing...

So far, we have an unconfirmed from PD, a denial from sailing, the usual from Jerry, and the impression that I saw a trial balloon floating by, maybe, via proxy.

Anyone else?

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1802380)

...the monetary value of the profit sharing to the Delta pilot group is probably less then Americans funding obligations to the pilot A plan. I would consider it at least a direct offset on costs.

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 1802257)

You could have posted a source but you chose to attempt to discredit sailingfun. That doesn't help your credibility. Who, exactly, is pushing reducing or ending profit sharing? It's a very straight forward question. If you had a reasonable answer I'd be inclined to support what you are saying since I, like most Delta pilots, likes profit sharing and don't want to see it go