More "large RJ's" at the cut throat regionals should be an automatic NO DEAL.

The dumbest thing we could do with the bottom end of scope would be to allow even more of those DC-9-10 replacement jets to the bottom feeding cut throats while attempting to operate the exact same type with one more plug in it at the mainline. DUMB BEYOND BELIEF.

We have rates for not only the 100ish seat versions of these so called "RJ's" but the ones below them currently operated at the regionals. Even the 100 seat rates in our contract pale in comparison to JetBlue's profitable E190 that seats 100 with no first class. In our config it would probably be a 90 or so seater

It would be building our foundation on quicksand to allow even more DC-9-10 jets to be outsourced to the lowball cut throat bottom feeders. Let the regionals choke on their 76s and 70s with the manning they have (LOL!!!!!! good luck with that!) and any of that lift they can't do can be transferred to the mainline in whatever kind of plane they want. 950 seat all coach A380s to CRJ700 64 seat-ers, its their call and not our problem.

We do need much higher (JB plus a substantial premium) 100 seat rate for the "even larger RJ's" at mainline. Current 717 pay (including future raises) seems sufficient.

As for 9 6 4 4 when I look at that I have no reaction other than curiosity. Those numbers are irrelevant without the rest of it. I can think of TA's where 9 6 4 4 would be an absolute YES and TA's where it would be HECK NO. I hope the pilot group and NC doesn't get section 3 myopia because that's when management is best at moving the ball around the cups and hustling us like big city tourists.

maybe your survey did. my survey said move a lot of it to hard pay, but dont mistake that for saying that is where the raise should come from

donutelli, nice gotta remember that

Well Karnak here we are.

I have been saying for 3 an 1/2 years that we cannot staff 9 fleets and 8 pilot bases with all the retirements we have coming. You assured me that it was a walk in the park.

Where does the ignorant, arrogant we know it all leave us?

On the eve of gutting our PWA.

We all agree our execs are very talented. So how did we get here?

I can only imagine what concessions they are pressing for. We work so hard now the list is fairly short. Some has been leaked.

Another increase in the ALV.
An increase in the TLV.
Eliminate all seniority list instructors.
Bar first officers from bidding with line check captains.
More outsourced 76 seat jets.
Revisit CDOs
9 hours for 2 intl pilots
13 hours for 3 intl pilots

This is ALPA's biggest weakness. The lack of any planning. Never proactive. Always reacting to management's playbook.

Karnak I really want to hear what you think we should do. Pick your concessions. Or what does Sailing call them? Tradeoffs.

How many jobs should we give away? Who's job should we give away?

My pick is as posted above. Consequences. Hire flat out and green slips and green slips with conflict until they catch up.

Look no further than the demand for more 76 seat RJs. We make a insane concession in C2012 and what happens? They want more. What is the message?

Green slips? More like green slips with conflict.

That's how we "monetize" profit sharing.

Management broke it. They can fix it. We MUST refuse to sacrifice any more QOL due to management's ineptitude.

Sadly we are here again with our pants down around our ankles. The insiders still don't understand that the Moak doctrine is a one way street. They get a 700% increase in compensation and we get to make more concessions.

No one should kid themselves. We are going to make large job costing concessions.

In my opinion we need to call our reps and tell them to make the staffing concessions time limited.

Increase ALV 2 hours for 24 months. The 2 hours is paid at double time and they must upgrade 100 captains a month or it goes away.

Making permanent concessions during mind numbing record profits is unacceptable and unconscionable.

Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football over and over and over and over.

I'm not even on board with that. More time away from my family is not for sale at any price. Make it 100% voluntary (check a box in PBS), maybe, to throw a bone to the guys who want to work more. But reducing QOL more is no way to live.

Sir, you and indeed correct.

Right sir.

Yes.

FUPM. Easy peasy. Status quo is better than staffing efficiencies.

Profit Sharing Payout based on $10 Billion Company Profit

C2012
2.5*.1=250 million
7.5*.2=1.5 billion
Total=1.75 billion
1.75B/63M
=27.8%

Rumor 2015
4.5*.10=450 million
5.5*.2= 1.1 billion
Total=1.55 billion
1.55B/63M
=24.6%


12 year 777 Captain C2012 vs Rumor 2015 based on $10 billion profit in 2016

C2012
$270.25*1.277= $345.10 effective pay rate with 27.7% PS payout

Rumor 2015
$270.25*1.09=$294.57(DOS 9%)
$294.57*1.06=$312.24(6% raise on 1/1/16)

$312.24*1.246= $389.05 effect pay rate with 24.6% profit sharing payout

$389/$404= 4% short of C2000 buying power plus inflation at the end of 2016

The devil will be in the details.

As Gloopy said, giving up more "DC9 flying" is a non starter. Watch after giving more 76 seaters a reduction in some of the narrowbody orders.

Spending even more time away from home and slowing seniority progression with additional productivity gives is out of the question after stagnation that's occurred these past 15 years. Let's not screw this up. There's no reason to give anymore work rules. Too much has already been taken. The time is right to get the right contract. Let's not rush this.

Whatever the offer is, DALPA needs to present pro/con, fair and balanced. No sales jobs this time. It weakens your credibility, it makes you look like management tools and weakens the entire structure of the union we call ALPA. DO NOT present the lopsided sales job.

When you say "end of 2016" do you really mean beginning 2017 out of curiosity? Why would you state it that way?

If you folks took your time with the contract, what's the worst that could happen? Collect the big bucks in PS 2015?