Details on Delta TA
06-06-2015 | 11:28 PM
#5922
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: ????????????????
Is it MORE or NEW?
06-06-2015 | 11:54 PM
#5923
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
It's all hypothetical right now.
Unfortunately, everyone is hyper focused on pay rates. I understand that, but there is so much more.
Every FO should be up in arms about LCA trips removed from their bidding options as an example. And frankly, I cannot imagine the union would even consider it. However, it's as strong a rumor as pay rates. Disclaimer, I don't work that angle, but get better trips because more senior guys do work that angle.
Unfortunately, everyone is hyper focused on pay rates. I understand that, but there is so much more.
Every FO should be up in arms about LCA trips removed from their bidding options as an example. And frankly, I cannot imagine the union would even consider it. However, it's as strong a rumor as pay rates. Disclaimer, I don't work that angle, but get better trips because more senior guys do work that angle.
06-07-2015 | 12:00 AM
#5924
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: B737 CA
On another subject:
It occurs to me that all this talk about various concessions and what is and is not acceptable is the end result of a long and deliberate campaign of expectation-setting. It began nearly a year ago with Richard declaring his wish to have a contract ahead of time. This was repeated often until it became a widely held expectation that we would have a contract ahead of time - even the company wanted it! Followed and reinforced by the "On TimeOn Target" slogan from DALPA. Various social media grenades about at-risk compensation to start that conversation going. Frequent negotiations updates that never contained any real information but strongly emphasized the historically fast nature of the negotiations and how much this showed the company's commitment. The company using the check airman corps to spread rumors of their wish list, such as the oft-repeated claim that our sick time usage is much higher than other pilots or our productivity is far lower. A nearly constant barrage of rumors throughout negotiations from dubious sources, often conflicting but most generally concerning various concessions that had supposedly already been granted.
The cumulative effect is one of induced negotiation fatigue - only a couple months into negotiations and well before our current contract expires! - and a reflexively defensive posture in what ought to be a wildly positive negotiating environment. Somewhere at Ford & Harrison, there is a powerpoint file that was presented 2 years ago that outlined this precise strategy. They have some of the world's best corporate psychologists working for them. They know the pilot psyche very well.
In preparation for giving this TA an honest and thorough evaluation, we need to consider the effects of the company's manipulations on our own state of mind, and apply countermeasures. Think back over everything that has happened the last six months, realize that nearly every single step was likely intentional, and consider what the intended effect on your attitude was. Before these manipulations, what was your evaluation of the health of the company and industry and your expectations for your next contract? This will make a good yardstick by which to measure the coming TA.
06-07-2015 | 12:10 AM
#5925
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,278
Likes: 101
Not selling anything- but seriously, are we really this hooked on profit sharing... WE WORK FOR AN AIRLINE. We're going to be in the red again, guaranteed, probably within the decade. RA has probably single digit years with us left.
I have a price for portions of profit sharing turned into actual increases in pay rates and soft pay (I'm ALL about soft pay- that way it looks like we make less to the other groups).
Here's the catch: When PS trade deducted out, what is left in the TA has to be appropriate gains in this environment.
I have a price for portions of profit sharing turned into actual increases in pay rates and soft pay (I'm ALL about soft pay- that way it looks like we make less to the other groups).
Here's the catch: When PS trade deducted out, what is left in the TA has to be appropriate gains in this environment.
As you mentioned, it's an airline, which means it WILL be in red again. PS doesn't mean squat if there's NO PROFIT.
10/5/5/5 and 20% DC?
Rhetorical..........
But IOW, a "hard" trade for the PS? Take last year's PS and try to put it in a solid/tangible pay column.
Last edited by John Carr; 06-07-2015 at 12:21 AM.
06-07-2015 | 01:43 AM
#5926
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 112
100% agreed. It's Section 1 for a reason.
On another subject:
It occurs to me that all this talk about various concessions and what is and is not acceptable is the end result of a long and deliberate campaign of expectation-setting. It began nearly a year ago with Richard declaring his wish to have a contract ahead of time. This was repeated often until it became a widely held expectation that we would have a contract ahead of time - even the company wanted it! Followed and reinforced by the "On TimeOn Target" slogan from DALPA. Various social media grenades about at-risk compensation to start that conversation going. Frequent negotiations updates that never contained any real information but strongly emphasized the historically fast nature of the negotiations and how much this showed the company's commitment. The company using the check airman corps to spread rumors of their wish list, such as the oft-repeated claim that our sick time usage is much higher than other pilots or our productivity is far lower. A nearly constant barrage of rumors throughout negotiations from dubious sources, often conflicting but most generally concerning various concessions that had supposedly already been granted.
The cumulative effect is one of induced negotiation fatigue - only a couple months into negotiations and well before our current contract expires! - and a reflexively defensive posture in what ought to be a wildly positive negotiating environment. Somewhere at Ford & Harrison, there is a powerpoint file that was presented 2 years ago that outlined this precise strategy. They have some of the world's best corporate psychologists working for them. They know the pilot psyche very well.
In preparation for giving this TA an honest and thorough evaluation, we need to consider the effects of the company's manipulations on our own state of mind, and apply countermeasures. Think back over everything that has happened the last six months, realize that nearly every single step was likely intentional, and consider what the intended effect on your attitude was. Before these manipulations, what was your evaluation of the health of the company and industry and your expectations for your next contract? This will make a good yardstick by which to measure the coming TA.
On another subject:
It occurs to me that all this talk about various concessions and what is and is not acceptable is the end result of a long and deliberate campaign of expectation-setting. It began nearly a year ago with Richard declaring his wish to have a contract ahead of time. This was repeated often until it became a widely held expectation that we would have a contract ahead of time - even the company wanted it! Followed and reinforced by the "On TimeOn Target" slogan from DALPA. Various social media grenades about at-risk compensation to start that conversation going. Frequent negotiations updates that never contained any real information but strongly emphasized the historically fast nature of the negotiations and how much this showed the company's commitment. The company using the check airman corps to spread rumors of their wish list, such as the oft-repeated claim that our sick time usage is much higher than other pilots or our productivity is far lower. A nearly constant barrage of rumors throughout negotiations from dubious sources, often conflicting but most generally concerning various concessions that had supposedly already been granted.
The cumulative effect is one of induced negotiation fatigue - only a couple months into negotiations and well before our current contract expires! - and a reflexively defensive posture in what ought to be a wildly positive negotiating environment. Somewhere at Ford & Harrison, there is a powerpoint file that was presented 2 years ago that outlined this precise strategy. They have some of the world's best corporate psychologists working for them. They know the pilot psyche very well.
In preparation for giving this TA an honest and thorough evaluation, we need to consider the effects of the company's manipulations on our own state of mind, and apply countermeasures. Think back over everything that has happened the last six months, realize that nearly every single step was likely intentional, and consider what the intended effect on your attitude was. Before these manipulations, what was your evaluation of the health of the company and industry and your expectations for your next contract? This will make a good yardstick by which to measure the coming TA.
I'm at a loss explaining the company's timing of the $5B buyback through this lens. Perhaps it was a late-game decision and they simply HAD to announce on the front side of a TA to avoid a massive revolt if they were to announce on the back side? I have to believe that the price point of any pilot who is paying attention went way up after seeing management throw $5B to the wind (and themselves) so easily.
06-07-2015 | 02:49 AM
#5928
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
From: A350 Captain (RET)
Captains will vote that one away in a heartbeat. Their tired of their FO's making a lot more than them for less work. I see your angle on better trips but still effects less than 50% of the pilots. I've had s few of those and do not want to see them go away. The savings from that in regards to manning and GS's will help fund whatever raises we get.
Since I am a very senior captain in a very senior category, I have never been jealous of my F/O making more money than myself. I have always encouraged and supported their efforts to capitalize on the different nuances of our contract.
All the best,
OC
06-07-2015 | 03:01 AM
#5929
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,142
Likes: 5
It's all hypothetical right now.
Unfortunately, everyone is hyper focused on pay rates. I understand that, but there is so much more.
Every FO should be up in arms about LCA trips removed from their bidding options as an example. And frankly, I cannot imagine the union would even consider it. However, it's as strong a rumor as pay rates. Disclaimer, I don't work that angle, but get better trips because more senior guys do work that angle.
Unfortunately, everyone is hyper focused on pay rates. I understand that, but there is so much more.
Every FO should be up in arms about LCA trips removed from their bidding options as an example. And frankly, I cannot imagine the union would even consider it. However, it's as strong a rumor as pay rates. Disclaimer, I don't work that angle, but get better trips because more senior guys do work that angle.
06-07-2015 | 03:19 AM
#5930
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 1
From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
I hope this is is discussed at the open meeting--specifically, how many fewer pilots will be needed as a result.
I can't fathom how any FO rep, if he's really representing his FOs, could possibly vote yes to a TA with any such provision
I can't fathom how any FO rep, if he's really representing his FOs, could possibly vote yes to a TA with any such provision
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
