Details on Delta TA
06-03-2015 | 01:27 PM
#5421
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: B737 CA
Incidentally Carl, you have a bit of a habit of shooting inside the circle. I'm a scope hawk, always have been, I consider it the most important part of the contract and want it defended. I agree that ALPA didn't seem to prosecute this one very vigorously. But I have a very hard time seeing how this one could have turned out much differently. If we want vigorous non-monetary penalties for violation of scope, I think those penalties are going to have to be written into the contract language.
06-03-2015 | 01:32 PM
#5422
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Simmer down, groundskeeper. It's not resignation, it's sincere doubt that any mutually agreed-upon arbitrator would approve a drastic non-monetary remedy. This doubt was probably "learned" while working for a profitable Alaska Air Group (at QX) where a supposedly neutral arbitrator cut the AS pilots' pay 29% by throwing out the SWA 737 rates as an invalid comparison. If you can provide some valid counterexamples perhaps my doubt will be eased.
I'm surprised this would come from a regional guy like you. Pilots like you were here steadily seven years ago slamming pilots like me for giving up scope and imprisoning you to the regionals. Now you're here and explaining away the fact that we refused to fight a scope violation. Not a scope give away, a scope violation.
Carl
06-03-2015 | 01:42 PM
#5423
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 1
From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Although this was not officially included in C15... Is there really any question that this was not traded in part for something within C15? The two negotiating tracks have clearly been conducted in parallel.
I just don't buy that this is a completely compartmentalized transaction.
I just don't buy that this is a completely compartmentalized transaction.
06-03-2015 | 01:43 PM
#5424
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
OK.
Again, all moot now.
Carl
06-03-2015 | 01:52 PM
#5425
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,877
Likes: 194
I guess I had no idea how the grievance process works. Who knew there was a reasonable chance a arbitrator might have ordered the entire shutdown of Delta's atlantic joint venture. Billions of dollars in revenue gone. Reservation canceled for ticket reservations numbering in the hundreds of thousands gone. A entire alliance shutdown! A probable loss in stock value in the billions. All because they came in at 47% instead of 48.5% on the EASK. Can you imagine the WSJ articles!
06-03-2015 | 01:57 PM
#5426
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,613
Likes: 627
I guess I had no idea how the grievance process works. Who knew there was a reasonable chance a arbitrator might have ordered the entire shutdown of Delta's atlantic joint venture. Billions of dollars in revenue gone. Reservation canceled for ticket reservations numbering in the hundreds of thousands gone. A entire alliance shutdown! A probable loss in stock value in the billions. All because they came in at 47% instead of 48.5% on the EASK. Can you imagine the WSJ articles!
06-03-2015 | 02:01 PM
#5427
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,613
Likes: 627
Although this was not officially included in C15... Is there really any question that this was not traded in part for something within C15? The two negotiating tracks have clearly been conducted in parallel.
I just don't buy that this is a completely compartmentalized transaction.
I just don't buy that this is a completely compartmentalized transaction.
06-03-2015 | 02:09 PM
#5428
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,877
Likes: 194
Can you tell us how many jobs were lost and about what the value should have been?
06-03-2015 | 02:18 PM
#5429
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 9
From: 3fidy
Incidentally Carl, you have a bit of a habit of shooting inside the circle. I'm a scope hawk, always have been, I consider it the most important part of the contract and want it defended. I agree that ALPA didn't seem to prosecute this one very vigorously. But I have a very hard time seeing how this one could have turned out much differently. If we want vigorous non-monetary penalties for violation of scope, I think those penalties are going to have to be written into the contract language.
06-03-2015 | 02:36 PM
#5430
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
You also have no idea how the spelling system works, but it doesn't stop you from writing.
The loss of the JV is just one remedy plea that could have been made to force Delta to fly the EASK's required to abide by the contract they signed. But first, you have to actually take it to arbitration as opposed to setting a price on Delta pilot jobs.
Carl
Who knew there was a reasonable chance a arbitrator might have ordered the entire shutdown of Delta's atlantic joint venture. Billions of dollars in revenue gone. Reservation canceled for ticket reservations numbering in the hundreds of thousands gone. A entire alliance shutdown! A probable loss in stock value in the billions. All because they came in at 47% instead of 48.5% on the EASK. Can you imagine the WSJ articles!
Carl
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