Details on Delta TA
05-20-2015, 08:01 AM
#4421
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: number cruncher
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by DeadHead
A seemingly confusing, obfuscate post.
You've cleverly clouded and mislead with your PS payout comment. You note that "PS would not change in 2015 just like last time", well PS never did change in the first year of the TA. PS did change, however for the next three years.
Not sure why your trying to rationalize rumor and innuendo. Especially when we have barely even discussed compensation with the company.
Nice first post....
You've cleverly clouded and mislead with your PS payout comment. You note that "PS would not change in 2015 just like last time", well PS never did change in the first year of the TA. PS did change, however for the next three years.
Not sure why your trying to rationalize rumor and innuendo. Especially when we have barely even discussed compensation with the company.
Nice first post....
Originally Posted by bohicagain
Why do we need to give anything away?
During bankruptcy when Delta guys took 46% pay cuts what did the pilots get in those negotiations for helping the company out? What was Delta's giveaway then? Was it PS?
During bankruptcy when Delta guys took 46% pay cuts what did the pilots get in those negotiations for helping the company out? What was Delta's giveaway then? Was it PS?
A)A promise to pay you $1,200 more than a year from now if I don't have other expenses..
OR
B)$100 every month all year long.
Last edited by pilotstats; 05-20-2015 at 08:12 AM. Reason: wording
05-20-2015, 08:03 AM
#4422
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 2
Why there is no hurry
Folks- there is absolutely no hurry for us. We could conceivably have a PS payout this year close to 40% and 50% for next year. That's like a 40% or 50% raise for doing nothing. Don't you see? That's why DAL management is in such a big hurry to get this contract done. They realize that our PS payout far exceeds any raise that they will ever negotiate. So give us an ok raise but cut PS (so they can also reduce the payout to the other work groups). That is their objective and they will do everything they can to sell us that we are getting an amazing deal. I can promise that DAL management wants to sell us on guaranteed money over the uncapped PS money. If we agree, what appears to be a pay raise will actually be a pay cut when future PS is taken into account. So our great contract will be nothing more than an illusion masked in a so-called pay raise that is really a pay cut in disguise. Folks, don't fall for it. Our golden goose is PS and ever more so looking into the future.
05-20-2015, 08:06 AM
#4423
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: number cruncher
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by JetManJim
Folks- there is absolutely no hurry for us. We could conceivably have a PS payout this year close to 40% and 50% for next year. That's like a 40% or 50% raise for doing nothing. Don't you see?
05-20-2015, 08:09 AM
#4424
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by pilotstats
Thank you, nice to be here. I prefer math to rhetoric. I do not rationalize rumor, cloud anything, or mislead anyone. After observing the discussion here I presented a scenario based on other posts. Increasing constants and eliminating variables for an equation makes it possible to find results in a quest for "X". (remember Algebra 1?). Putting your feelings aside, do you dispute the numerical result of the previous scenario?
I mention no such thing as "giving anything away". I am fully aware of what was lost before and during bankruptcy. Bankruptcy stinks, go ask the investors who lost everything they had in DAL! The pilots received a Note, Claim, Equity, pay raises tied to profitability, PS plan, D&S fund to name a few....
There has been numerous improvements and increase in the intervening 9 years, not nearly enough for us to be restored; how does that progress stand in comparison/contrast to our peers who also took a ride in bankruptcy?
Let's get back to what you were alluding to with your first question though. Given a choice, which would you prefer in your personal saving account:
A)A promise to pay you $1,200 more than a year from now if I don't have other expenses..
OR
B)$100 every month all year long.
I mention no such thing as "giving anything away". I am fully aware of what was lost before and during bankruptcy. Bankruptcy stinks, go ask the investors who lost everything they had in DAL! The pilots received a Note, Claim, Equity, pay raises tied to profitability, PS plan, D&S fund to name a few....
There has been numerous improvements and increase in the intervening 9 years, not nearly enough for us to be restored; how does that progress stand in comparison/contrast to our peers who also took a ride in bankruptcy?
Let's get back to what you were alluding to with your first question though. Given a choice, which would you prefer in your personal saving account:
A)A promise to pay you $1,200 more than a year from now if I don't have other expenses..
OR
B)$100 every month all year long.
I actually am quite matter of fact about C2015. I like the way you maneuvered around that with playing the emotion card though, nifty trick.
Anyway,
Lumberg/AV8/Trip7.......How's it going?
05-20-2015, 08:18 AM
#4425
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 2
Just calculate our PS on $7 billion and then on $10 billion based upon the current formula- because that is where we are heading. DAL corporate debt is declining fast and because of improved financial condition can be refinanced at a very low interest rate. You don't want debt to get too low or you become a takeover target. So after debt is retired and with money saved from refinancing existing debt, the money you were using to pay down and service debt flows right to the bottom line. Furthermore, as older employees retire they are replaced with newer less expensive employees, so over time overall labor costs (on a per pilot basis) will also decline. Our brand image has improved to the point that people will pay more to fly Delta. That trend should continue into the future with an ever improving product and our fleet is renewed. PS is our ace card now and I believe ALPA is going to negotiate it away.
05-20-2015, 08:18 AM
#4426
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: number cruncher
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by DeadHead
Jeez....We are definitely close to a TA
I actually am quite matter of fact about C2015. I like the way you maneuvered around that with playing the emotion card though, nifty trick.
Anyway,
Lumberg/AV8/Trip7.......How's it going?
I actually am quite matter of fact about C2015. I like the way you maneuvered around that with playing the emotion card though, nifty trick.
Anyway,
Lumberg/AV8/Trip7.......How's it going?
I don't presume to know if we are close to a TA or not. I have no indications that it is near. You must know something the rest of us do not.
Do you agree or disagree with the math in the aforementioned scenario, yes or no. "quite matter of fact about C2015" does not answer thay question (not sure what is does actually). Is that supposed to be a "..maneuvered around that.." of some kind?
05-20-2015, 09:11 AM
#4428
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: number cruncher
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by JetManJim
Just calculate our PS on $7 billion and then on $10 billion based upon the current formula- because that is where we are heading. DAL corporate debt is declining fast and because of improved financial condition can be refinanced at a very low interest rate. You don't want debt to get too low or you become a takeover target. So after debt is retired and with money saved from refinancing existing debt, the money you were using to pay down and service debt flows right to the bottom line. Furthermore, as older employees retire they are replaced with newer less expensive employees, so over time overall labor costs (on a per pilot basis) will also decline. Our brand image has improved to the point that people will pay more to fly Delta. That trend should continue into the future with an ever improving product and our fleet is renewed. PS is our ace card now and I believe ALPA is going to negotiate it away.
- PTIX of 0-2.5 Billion accrues 10% towards the pool. The max is $250 million.
- PTIX 2.5 billion and above accrues at 20%, the max is unlimited.
- Pilots get roughly 1/3 of the total accrued amount.
We now have $1.37 billion in the pool of money to be given out.
1.37 divide by 3 is $456.67 million.
Pilots are $25 million for each 1% of pay.
Section 3.I would pay the pilots around 18.25%.
In order for 2015 to pay the pilots 40% as you allege, the pilot portion would need to reach at least $1 billion, so the total pool would have to reach $3 billion. DAL's PTIX would have to be $16.25 billion in 2015 for your math. It is highly unlikely we will see a 240% increase in PTIX YOY.
In order to get a 50% payout, DAL's PTIX would have to reach $20 billion.
To answer your $10 billion profit (do you mean profit or PTIX) if PTIX: It would mean a PS payment of 23.3%
05-20-2015, 09:31 AM
#4429
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by pilotstats
Excellent deflection! You, you're good, you....
I don't presume to know if we are close to a TA or not. I have no indications that it is near. You must know something the rest of us do not.
Do you agree or disagree with the math in the aforementioned scenario, yes or no. "quite matter of fact about C2015" does not answer thay question (not sure what is does actually). Is that supposed to be a "..maneuvered around that.." of some kind?
I don't presume to know if we are close to a TA or not. I have no indications that it is near. You must know something the rest of us do not.
Do you agree or disagree with the math in the aforementioned scenario, yes or no. "quite matter of fact about C2015" does not answer thay question (not sure what is does actually). Is that supposed to be a "..maneuvered around that.." of some kind?
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