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Old 06-03-2015 | 08:12 AM
  #5401  
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Originally Posted by Scoop
It totally depends on the long term resolution of the issue. It could be very good to very bad. Not enough information to make a decision.


Scoop

I think that is the right response.
But I'm beyond ignorant. So. There is that.
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Old 06-03-2015 | 09:09 AM
  #5402  
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The company needs to pay a large penalty for this imbalance. 30 million is not near enough to ensure the company doesn't pull this again. Nothing like a tap on the wrist.
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Old 06-03-2015 | 09:18 AM
  #5403  
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Originally Posted by notEnuf
The $30M settlement is great but that's $2500 per pilot or so on average.

I haven't seen anything other than an announcement. I don't think the details are out yet but...

My guess is it will go to international guys or potential upgrades. My further guess is that it rewrites production balance to a lower value so this doesn't happen again. The Virgin JV agreement set the floor below current flying because they saw this coming and didn't want to pay for noncompliance on Virgin.

BTW the Deltanet news piece on the May dip disappeared. I was going to reference it but, too late. Hmmm?
IMO it will be paid like profit sharing.

Hopefully new language has immediate penalties for non compliance.

I am happy the MEC did not roll this into C2015.
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Old 06-03-2015 | 09:32 AM
  #5404  
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Originally Posted by gzsg
IMO it will be paid like profit sharing.



Hopefully new language has immediate penalties for non compliance.



I am happy the MEC did not roll this into C2015.

Totally agree. I'm very glad this is outside of section 6.
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Old 06-03-2015 | 09:34 AM
  #5405  
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Originally Posted by gzsg
IMO it will be paid like profit sharing.

Hopefully new language has immediate penalties for non compliance.

I am happy the MEC did not roll this into C2015.
If there were any such language, it would have been stated. Instead, just the money "penalty" was published.

So here's what we've done:

1. Agreed to this JV only because it would be a job grower for Delta pilots.

2. Delta went immediately to the minimum level, then below costing Delta pilot jobs.

3. Delta ignored the cure period and remained in violation.

4. DALPA agreed to $2,500 per pilot as punishment, and no requirement of newer protection language.

5. Current production balance in favor of the Euro partners is now the new law.

6. We Delta pilots have now set the legal precedent that Scope violation and permanent reset of a production balance, is cureable with money.

As I have said so many times (regretfully) before, our Scope language is entirely voluntary. Management can violate it at will, then pay pennies on the dollar to permanently reset the language.

Carl
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Old 06-03-2015 | 09:44 AM
  #5406  
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Wrong thread...duh.
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Old 06-03-2015 | 09:46 AM
  #5407  
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Originally Posted by Professor
I think that is the right response.
But I'm beyond ignorant. So. There is that.
Finally!!! We Agree!!!
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Old 06-03-2015 | 09:51 AM
  #5408  
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The company is paying us an amount equal to 5% of its most recent buyback to settle its willful disregard of our scope. And it has also established the precedence of doing so. For blowing off our most sacred contractual element.

It's a bargain at twice the price. For them.
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Old 06-03-2015 | 10:20 AM
  #5409  
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Carl & PD -- OK, yeah, it sucks that they can violate scope at will and just pay us some cash, but I want to know what we could do differently. Any violation of the contract will always go through the grievance and arbitration process. We filed the grievance, we kept it out of the Section 6 process, both good. The subsequent alternatives are settling or going to the arbitrator. We settled for $30M. Would an arbitrator have awarded more? *Maybe,* but then we're still selling scope for money (and the arbitrator might have said $15M while simultaneously giving Sir Richard a handy under the table). What I can't see the arbitrator doing is forcing Delta to up their int'l block hours and creating more widebody vacancies. That's the solution we'd like to see but simply not going to happen. So it was always going to come down to money.
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Old 06-03-2015 | 10:26 AM
  #5410  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
If there were any such language, it would have been stated. Instead, just the money "penalty" was published.

So here's what we've done:

1. Agreed to this JV only because it would be a job grower for Delta pilots.

2. Delta went immediately to the minimum level, then below costing Delta pilot jobs.

3. Delta ignored the cure period and remained in violation.

4. DALPA agreed to $2,500 per pilot as punishment, and no requirement of newer protection language.

5. Current production balance in favor of the Euro partners is now the new law.

6. We Delta pilots have now set the legal precedent that Scope violation and permanent reset of a production balance, is cureable with money.

As I have said so many times (regretfully) before, our Scope language is entirely voluntary. Management can violate it at will, then pay pennies on the dollar to permanently reset the language.

Carl
I feel the exact same way. Maybe we should just drop scope completely like Alaska. Why waste bargaining credits?
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