Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1899275)

Am I reading and interpreting the new PS methodology correctly?

It looks like that the net effect on PS will be minus 5.74% only if all 3 years of the contract has are above 6.0 billion? Less for profits less than 6 billion

So for instance if 2016 is like 2014, we would see a PS payout of 16.7 - 5.74?

Thats my quick calculation. So, if you are going to monetize going forward, the 5.74 needs to be ADDED not subtracted from the rates going forward (2016, 2017 etc)

Ferd

Quote:

Originally Posted by OceanCrosser (Post 1899256)

Herkflyr,

Sorry, but that is a bullcrap statement and I am a senior widebody captain (top 1 percent flying Delta's largest jet) with 4 more years until retirement.

I am truly disappointed in the bullet points of this TA and I would not be surprised if the MEC sends the negotiators back. I would also hope they send it back with a unanimous vote.

There are way too many givebacks in this proposed contract for me to be excited about including the F/O's being prevented from bidding LCA trips, Sick Leave verification, the lack of more vacation days and the relaxation of international scope....just to name a few.

We also agree about our Profit Sharing, I don't like the idea of our raise being funded by Profit Sharing but I caution you about lumping us senior guys in not wanting to fight the fight (I have walked a picket line before and can do it again).

Fly safe,

OC

You know upon rereading I should probably apologize and retract my initial post. I didn't mean to cast senior captains in such a harsh manner, as if they didn't care.

I truly did not mean that (but I was posting on my phone and kept it brief). What I should have said was that senior capts care far more about pay rates and DC contributions than perhaps narrowbody and RJ issues--and that is understandable, and also explains that it is very difficult for the negotiators to please all the pilots all the time.

What I did not mean was that I thought they were all "got mine, so up yours" in approach--they are not!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1899281)

Thanks! That is what I was coming up with.

So, RA is committed to paying us 14.8% more than AA, assuming are profitability performance continues. Wow! How much more do you folks expect to get from the mediation board?

I would rather continue with C-12 which you have already assured us we would be stuck with.

Scoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1899250)

As a whole the contract isn't concessionary.

A negotiation is called a negotiation. That means the needs of both sides have to be met, not just one. At the end, more money is coming into the hands of Delta pilots, not flowing from our pockets to the company.

This is an industry leading contract and richest in history.

Beg to differ. Money is not everything. I'll bet georgetq's numbers are spot on with the loss of 20% of our guaranteed flying in the joint venture deal. On a personal note...........that's my job! Along with a lot of other guys and gals. There are many moving parts to our contract one of which comes out (no where near enough IMO) ahead-money. Scope, sick leave, training freezes for new hires, LCA trips removed etc. etc. etc. are loses. How can the MEC even be considering this POS? I certainly would not be surprised if this was actually overall "cost positive" to the company. Yeah, maybe that's the idea! Then they might want to negotiate with us every year!:eek:

I have never voted no on a contract, I guess my vote will cancel out yours. This TA is a travesty in this negotiating environment. I will not be going to any road show. Don't need too. As a long time Dalpa supporter, this has just breathed new life into the DPA movement. this kind of reminds me of the last Super Bowel where the Seahawks snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in the last 30 seconds of the game. What a kick in the gut!

Denny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 1899278)

I voted yes on C-2012. I am a 100% No vote this time.

If we deem this acceptable in times of record profits what will happen when we negotiate in the profitless times? Which by the way, the spread the fear crowd assures us is just around the corner.

Think long term guys - If we accept 8,0,3,3 now - what can we expect in mediocre times?

Everyone please E-mail your Reps and urge them to send it back - I just did.

Scoop

I emailed all three reps, 5 minutes ago. No, just say no.

It'll still pass. My guess is 65% yes. We'll get them next time. At least I have a $1.20 a day more in per diem to make up for it.

I wonder what would happen if all the LCA's resigned en masse? I'm not suggesting they do so, just wondering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JungleBus (Post 1899273)

Good Lord. I've been pretty quiet through most of the process so far, figuring the rumors were off base and possibly floated to make the actual TA look better when it came out. I prepared myself to look at the TA in detail with an open mind. And then it's released, and 80% of the negative rumors were spot on according to the union's own bullet points, before even looking at the actual language (which is usually where the devil hides). This thing is deeply concessionary in nearly every area other than payrates, which would be adequate on their own but not while hitched to the rest of this turkey. Worst of all, they moved the line on scope again...on the bottom end AND the top end! Have we learned absolutely nothing from the past 20 years?

Serious question:

Did anyone here honestly believe mgmt was somehow going to do a sudden 180, start farting daffodils and sunshine, and actually offer a reasonable contract??

Mgmt HATES it's employees. They LOATH their employees. If they could they would fire every single one of their employees and replace them with robots. HR is an "executive's" worst nightmare. That isn't going to change.

Ever.

Delta pilots are going to have to forcibly TAKE their fair share of Delta's revenue. You guys have 2 choices.

1) Take what they give you

or

2) Get prepared to fight for what is right, then follow through with it

There is no third option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by p3flteng (Post 1899295)

I emailed all three reps, 5 minutes ago. No, just say no.

I think it's too late for the reps. The gave their approval (what ever that vote was) to TA it.

It's up to us now:mad: