Details on Delta TA
06-09-2015 | 01:16 PM
#6771
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Anyway, I haven't gone back any posts to see what was said. However, I will say that based on the JV changes in this TA, the negotiating committee should not only be fired from the negotiating committee, but disallowed from doing any union work in the future.
Anyone who thinks this TA is any good at all needs to quit taking stupid pills. The JV change from EASKs to block hours alone is a reason to slit wrists. Why don't we just give up now and say Alpa has no business doing the pilots business.
06-09-2015 | 01:18 PM
#6773
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,324
Likes: 53
Just spitballing some numbers on what the LCA concession costs us. Lots of assumptions here, so feel free to slash. I figured 35hrs OE for newhires, 25 for transition (not sure if that is correct), and 900 hrs/yr of trips for the average FO.
First, new-hire OEs. Assuming 1k new hires per year, that’s 35k hrs of OE trips per year. 75% of them no longer open to bid = 26,250 fewer F/O hours needed = 30 fewer F/Os.
Next, transition OEs. Assuming 6 AEs/yr, 2,500 OE hrs per AE = 13 fewer F/Os
Next, impact of 2yr seat lock on new hires. Assuming 10% of new hires want to move up at year 1 due to year 2 payrate differences or other reasons. No longer possible… another 21 F/O jobs gone.
Somewhere around 60 fewer F/Os needed. A 6% cut in hiring. Not bad negotiations for the company, and an easy sell to people who think it won’t affect them… until they get pushed down a few numbers when a good chunk of the senior pilots in each F/O category bid over to Capt.
Add in the job losses due to the other concessions, and I’ll be bold enough to say that’s not a candy bar floating in our punch bowl.
First, new-hire OEs. Assuming 1k new hires per year, that’s 35k hrs of OE trips per year. 75% of them no longer open to bid = 26,250 fewer F/O hours needed = 30 fewer F/Os.
Next, transition OEs. Assuming 6 AEs/yr, 2,500 OE hrs per AE = 13 fewer F/Os
Next, impact of 2yr seat lock on new hires. Assuming 10% of new hires want to move up at year 1 due to year 2 payrate differences or other reasons. No longer possible… another 21 F/O jobs gone.
Somewhere around 60 fewer F/Os needed. A 6% cut in hiring. Not bad negotiations for the company, and an easy sell to people who think it won’t affect them… until they get pushed down a few numbers when a good chunk of the senior pilots in each F/O category bid over to Capt.
Add in the job losses due to the other concessions, and I’ll be bold enough to say that’s not a candy bar floating in our punch bowl.
It's 75% of the LCA hours. 10% of Capts LCA = 700 LCAs. 700 LCAs x 1000 hours per year gives you 700, 000 hours. Take 75 % of that = 525, 000 hours. That is 525 pilot lines.
This sucks all the way around.
06-09-2015 | 01:18 PM
#6774
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
Does anyone have any information on the issue of new hire pilots and seat locks?
• New hire training freeze increased to 24 months
o May be awarded an AE/VD after 12 months if initial qualification training required to change bases
o Remaining freeze added to new freeze from AE/VD award
Not sure what this means.
• New hire training freeze increased to 24 months
o May be awarded an AE/VD after 12 months if initial qualification training required to change bases
o Remaining freeze added to new freeze from AE/VD award
Not sure what this means.
It means vote No!
Only kidding, read the details and then vote no.
Scoop
06-09-2015 | 01:22 PM
#6776
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
I thought LCA were 20% of the group? Is it 10% or 20%, frightened minds want to know.
06-09-2015 | 01:22 PM
#6777
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
06-09-2015 | 01:23 PM
#6778
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
Don't forget raising the TLV by 1 hour. Thats about a 1.3% increase in productivity. At just 10,000 Pilots thats about 130 Pilot positions.
That may be partially offset by the increase in vacation and training but I am still a No vote.
Scoop
06-09-2015 | 01:27 PM
#6779
Banned
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
For the swing voters that want a couple percent more, say 3%, here is a back of the envelope calculation for an average 88 Capt flying 85 hours. For those who can't vote yes for anything rational, disregard.
To get the same deal at the amenable date, you now need $8445 additional dollars above and beyond the TA in order to break even. Pay rates would have to be .9% higher to recoup lost TVM. So lets say a swing voter wants 3% more in compounded rate. You need to add .9%. Lets round up to 4%. Not too bad.
Lets go amendable date plus 6 months:
You would need to recoup the $23,460 left on the table of original deal. This means an additional 2.6% must be added to your goal of TA plus 3% for a total of 5.6%. Starting to get ugly. TA is a 21.5% compounded raise, and now you need 5.6% more for your goal.
1 year past the amendable date you have to capture an additional $38,760 to break even. That amounts to 4.4%. Add in your goal of TA +3 and you need to see 7.4% more above and beyond the 21.5% of original TA.
I'll stop there because it gets silly beyond 18 months, just ask SWAPA. They have lost a gargantuan amount of money over 3 years.
To get the same deal at the amenable date, you now need $8445 additional dollars above and beyond the TA in order to break even. Pay rates would have to be .9% higher to recoup lost TVM. So lets say a swing voter wants 3% more in compounded rate. You need to add .9%. Lets round up to 4%. Not too bad.
Lets go amendable date plus 6 months:
You would need to recoup the $23,460 left on the table of original deal. This means an additional 2.6% must be added to your goal of TA plus 3% for a total of 5.6%. Starting to get ugly. TA is a 21.5% compounded raise, and now you need 5.6% more for your goal.
1 year past the amendable date you have to capture an additional $38,760 to break even. That amounts to 4.4%. Add in your goal of TA +3 and you need to see 7.4% more above and beyond the 21.5% of original TA.
I'll stop there because it gets silly beyond 18 months, just ask SWAPA. They have lost a gargantuan amount of money over 3 years.
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